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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think this isn't 'just what kids do?'

192 replies

justsomestepmum · 16/01/2018 21:16

My five year old DSD has developed a habit of telling lies. Lies told in the past week include:

I get angry at her if she eats meat (I'm a vegetarian)
Her dad told her that her mums cat had fleas and he is going to get rid of her cat
That her teacher forced her to eat something she didn't want to

When she lies she is punished by removal of one of her dolls (her most cherished possessions) from her collection for 1 week, if she lies during that week another is taken and both held for another week. She also loses a star on her star chart which means she earns no pocket money for that day.

These punishments are always accompanied by age appropriate conversations of why it's wrong to lie, how it means we can't trust her, how it can get other people in trouble and cause serious issues. She never has an answer for why she lies. The cat/fleas one being particularly pointless, not sure what she's getting out of it.

Tonight I found out she has been telling her mum that her dad smacks/hits her. I know this is not 100% not true.

We don't know how to deal with it. It's been going on for about two months and nothing we do seems to have any input. DD's mum doesn't appear to think it's an issue and when I brought it up with her said it's 'just what kids do.'

The lies always seem to be about something DH or I are meant to have done or said and are told to mum. On two occasions they have been about teachers. As far as I recall there have been no lies she has told to us about things mum has done/said.

AIBU to think this isn't the norm? I'm at a loss as to how to get her to stop lying and more importantly work out why shes doing it.

OP posts:

Cath2907 · 17/01/2018 13:11

My kid has a very active fantasy world. She once told me school ran out of food and didn't give her any lunch. She has also told me in the past that school dinner was only snowflakes. She tells me she is sick, that she got up in the middle of the night and had a midnight feast, that she definitely saw Santa in the middle of the night, that she did PE in school yesterday (I am pretty sure it is Wednesdays), that her barbies come to life and talk to her.

She is 7. When she was younger it was often hard to know what was fantasy and what was real (I was unconvinced by the snowflake story). These days I can ask her if it is true true or made up true and she will tell me truthfully - I only do this if I need to be sure. I've never punished it. However if she tells a lie with a consequence (i.e. Daddy hit me) I'd have a very gentle and loving but serious talk with her about how much harm that might to Daddy and she'd immediately retract. We haven't had to do this often but she isn't out to hurt people - she just likes to tell a good story!

Candyandpop · 17/01/2018 13:22

It's not unusual for a 5 year old. Maybe it's a form of attention seeking - she says it for a reaction.

I tell my 6 year old (and even 10 year old), about the Cry Wolf story - that if you lie enough times, come a crucial moment when they are actually telling the truth about a situation, and they really need to be heard - in that moment I won't believe them, and they will be totally ignored. That kind of worked.

I do think that perhaps your punishments are over the top - you don't want to give them anxiety over it, as she is still so young.

puglife15 · 17/01/2018 13:27

Whether it was the mum, stepmum or the queen of England posting this I'd still say taking the dolls away is a really bad move. It's unfair and mean and won't work.

QuizzlyBear · 17/01/2018 13:45

When I was her age I told everyone at school that I had a twin that died in the womb. Don't know why but my classmates believed it and I had to stick to it for the next two years!

Kids do make up all kinds at that age but there's usually an underlying reason. Since all her lies seem to revolve around you guys and her teacher but not her mum I'd suspect that she's trying to ally herself more closely with her mum or trying to get her attention.

littlehandcuffs · 17/01/2018 14:10

I was a stepmother for just under 3 years to a little girl who was 5 when I met her. She began telling quite innocent lies but these progressed to very vivid disturbing lies about being hurt or touched. I never lived with her and I ended the relationship when the lies started to progress.
One of her lies was that she was pushed down some stairs and had injured herself (which she had) luckily someone independant had seen her trip on a long dress.
Her behavior became worse with hitting out etc. and I thought there was more to it. Her parents have since taken her out of school and the area. I hope she has had the help she needs but I was very glad to be out of that situation, it was nervewracking!

Absofrigginlootly · 17/01/2018 14:21

these progressed to very vivid disturbing lies about being hurt or touched.

Sounds like that little girl was being abused by someone

littlehandcuffs · 17/01/2018 14:35

Abso, when she was saying touched it was by boys at school who had pulled her knickers down and touched her bottom. The parents went into the school etc. who were great and watched her etc. but it became apparent she was making it up.
I had very little to do with her and her parents were really concerned as was school at the time. I did think there was more to it and found her behavior odd. The last I heard she was seeing her doctor and going from there.

EggsonHeads · 17/01/2018 14:40

Is it possible that she is lying to please/cheer up her mother? How are relations between her mother and the two of you? Is it possible that she feels pressured to prove that she is on her mum's side by making out that the two of you are mean? What about her mother's mental health? Maybe she can tell that her mother isn't happy and she's try to prove that she has a better relationship with her than with the two of you to make her feel better?

Absofrigginlootly · 17/01/2018 14:45

who had pulled her knickers down and touched her bottom.

Huge red flag. It might not have been the boys at school but it sounds like that little girl was trying to tell someone something

Lizzie48 · 17/01/2018 14:46

*Littlehandcuffs
*
I was a stepmother for just under 3 years to a little girl who was 5 when I met her. She began telling quite innocent lies but these progressed to very vivid disturbing lies about being hurt or touched. I never lived with her and I ended the relationship when the lies started to progress.

I very much doubt a little girl that age would come up with such 'lies' if she weren't being abused by someone. It wouldn't enter a 5 year old's head otherwise.

Lizzie48 · 17/01/2018 14:49

That's not to say that the boys at school really did pull down her knickers, but something was going on most likely.

Raffles1981 · 17/01/2018 14:53

If you know for sure it's not true then just tell her, 'That's not true, that does not happen' and then distract and move on.
This. Spot on. As a kid, I lied. A lot. My parents tried punishments/making an issue of it - but the above was the only thing that stopped it. Call her bluff, move on. You are making this a bigger issue than it is.

thethoughtfox · 17/01/2018 14:54

The type of lies seem to be about her being mistreated which she may think will give her extra love and attention. And/ or, she has picked up on adult tension between both households and she is playing on this either because she thinks this is what her mother wants to hear or that she will get extra love and sympathy .

littlehandcuffs · 17/01/2018 14:54

Yes, I felt uneasy about it all, luckily the school were taking it very seriously or I would have reported it myself.

Batteriesallgone · 17/01/2018 16:17

The way I see it, the mother is telling you in a spirit of openness, not in order for you to implement a punishment (hence her reassurance ‘all kids do it’). And then her father is implementing a harsh punishment - when? The next day? A few hours later? How confusing for the child to do something, have her mum be relatively relaxed, but then be harshly punished by her Dad hours later - and neither of these people are even her main carer, which is the OP. Everything just seems so muddled.

I would want a NRP to tell me about lies like this. If it escalated and SS got involved (just as a worse case) I wouldn’t want them to turn round at a later date and say oh yeah she’s been doing it for ages but I didn’t want to tell you.

So, the child’s Mum to keep informing you, but she seems to also have a handle on the best way to deal with it - staying calm and not overreacting.

The only thing left for you and your DH to do is reassure the child when she gets back to your house how much you love her. Just because your DH is the RP and you are the primary carer doesn’t mean you have to be the ones doling out all punishments / reactions. Her mum is on the spot and appears to be reacting appropriately - leave it at that.

Absofrigginlootly · 17/01/2018 20:33

How confusing for the child to do something, have her mum be relatively relaxed, but then be harshly punished by her Dad hours later - and neither of these people are even her main carer which is the OP. Everything just seems so muddled.

Yes any may be why her lying is getting worse, she's confused and testing boundaries. Not to mention probably being unhappy with all the harsh punishments.... I know you said you'd stop the punishments OP and good for you for taking the feedback!

But children need to be raised in an environment, not just devoid of harsh punishments, but full of love, understanding, empathy, good humor, and consistency.... hopefully that's something you can all sit down and discuss how to provide her with, it sounds like a complicated situation.

I hope you read that book recommendations I linked to above

WellThisIsShit · 17/01/2018 20:59

shame?!?!?! Wtf?!?! Utterly bonkers. And as for needing professional help, err, no, she really doesn’t sound anything like a child in need of serious professional help. What an odd life that poster must have led to be under the impression that a five year old child lying occasionally is grounds for professional intervention.

Utter balderdash. Coldswallop. Nonsense.

Anyway, back in reality, OP, I came on to say that this isn’t about you! By which, I mean, your dsd is lying to her mum mostly whilst in her mums care right?

So, I do actually think that your dsd is really wanting a reaction from her mum, and whether that’s a little girl trying to say what she thinks her mum wants her to say, or a little girl needing attention from her mum, that’s really something only her mum can divine and respond to.

But that does mean that the punishment does mean very disjointed coming from you guys in her other (main) home.

So it does feel really important that not only do you dial back the severity of the punishments but you take a good look at how to connect any punishment to the deed itself. Any punishment or consequence becomes ineffective if it’s not linked in the child’s mind, and one that doesn’t happen in the same context becomes miserable without benefit for both you and dsd.

Currently there’s no link in terms of:

place
people
time
topic (doll does not = content of the lie)
or causality (losing doll does not = real world consequence of a lie)

Especially for a five year old, they just don’t have the mental development for a punishment like this to have any effect, which is exactly what you are experiencing.

Hopefully you aren’t going respond by getting into a cycle of punish harder and harder to try and get the effect you desire, because it’s just not physically possible for your step daughter to display the required change in behaviour. I really think you’ve learned this throughout this thread already, but I’ve seen it happen in other situations and it’s so sad when that happens.

She just cannot learn the lesson in the way you are currently trying to get her to learn it, but, I would shift the emphasis away from punishments and towards addressing the root of the problem with her mother.

Good luck

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