to think this isn't 'just what kids do?'

[justsomestepmum]

My five year old DSD has developed a habit of telling lies. Lies told in the past week include:

• I get angry at her if she eats meat (I'm a vegetarian)
• Her dad told her that her mums cat had fleas and he is going to get rid of her cat
• That her teacher forced her to eat something she didn't want to

When she lies she is punished by removal of one of her dolls (her most cherished possessions) from her collection for 1 week, if she lies during that week another is taken and both held for another week. She also loses a star on her star chart which means she earns no pocket money for that day.

These punishments are always accompanied by age appropriate conversations of why it's wrong to lie, how it means we can't trust her, how it can get other people in trouble and cause serious issues. She never has an answer for why she lies. The cat/fleas one being particularly pointless, not sure what she's getting out of it.

Tonight I found out she has been telling her mum that her dad smacks/hits her. I know this is not 100% not true.

We don't know how to deal with it. It's been going on for about two months and nothing we do seems to have any input. DD's mum doesn't appear to think it's an issue and when I brought it up with her said it's 'just what kids do.'

The lies always seem to be about something DH or I are meant to have done or said and are told to mum. On two occasions they have been about teachers. As far as I recall there have been no lies she has told to us about things mum has done/said.

AIBU to think this isn't the norm? I'm at a loss as to how to get her to stop lying and more importantly work out why shes doing it.

How do you know for certain that she said her dad hits her? Who did you hear this from, the horse's mouth or the horse's mum?

You sound really highly strung. Do you have kids of your own or is this your first foray into parenthood, OP? It's not easy for kids to adapt to step-parents. It's a weird journey. Don't take that personally. But I wonder how old she was when parent divorced. How long have you been her stepmother for? Big things have happened in this very small person's life. You need to be more mindful of where she's at emotionally.

It's not normal, you're right. But it's not because she's a bad kid. It's because she needs something... clarity in her little life? Understanding of where she slots into her family dynamic? Maybe she feels uncomfortable staying with you and dad and is trying to paint a dire picture of dad so that she doesn't have to spend time with him?

I say none of this critically. I have been through divorce and the whole 'blended family' scenario. It's a work in progress and it's not easy, whether it's your bio or stepchild.

Talk more. Do more together. Don't make it all about punishment and what she's doing wrong. Focus on the word disciple, not discipline. Teach her more. Punish less.

DSS used to tell lies of roughly this sort. More kind of exaggerating things. Oh I saw a dinosaur. And we'd go really was it really big? Was it flying etc but basically gently taking the piss. It was easily the most effective of all the methods we tried.

Meh. Kids do lie. Your punishments are extreme, but you already know that. You've had some good advice here.

My 4 year old told his teacher at Christmas time that my OH shouts at him and hits him with sticks. Absolute fallacy. No clue why he said it and when we asked him about it he couldn't remember saying it other than repeating some nonsense story about my OH and a dragon fighting - I think maybe a dream. Luckily teacher used common sense (whilst also following safeguarding procedure)!

Read this article in the New York Times: 'Is Your Child Lying to You? That's Good': www.nytimes.com/2018/01/05/opinion/sunday/children-lying-intelligence.html?_r=0

ok my reaction was kids lie. only today I was watching a youtubers with a five year old describe how the 5 year old has learnt to lie to get her out on f trouble.

However as a step child I know my brother would often tell my step mom things that he thought she wanted to hear, you asked what he was getting out of the cat flees one. Well my brother used to tell my step mom, that my mum fed us potnoodle everyday and left us in our room to watch tv and he could stay up, (the truth was he did this because he wanted too, I ate with her every night went to bed at an age appriote bed time) it's to get acceptance which I realise now my brother wanted.

It is interesting she's lying to her mum, it's notice me mum accept me mum, mum am I saying what you want to hear, isn't daddy nasty he hates your cat and he hits me, you don't like daddy so I'm going to tell you nasty things about him. She's looking for her mum to affirm that she's saying what mum wants to hear.

I understand the oncern about her maybe mentioning to another adult i.e. A teacher that daddy hits her. Thing is reception teachers hear lots of things, from my daddy's in prison to my daddy's on the international space station, from my daddy hits me to my mummy's dead. Generally they can judge if there's something to be concerned about.

Agree it is kind of what a lot of kids do at that age I’m afraid. Dd never really told lies still doesn’t at 14 she feels too guilty and ends up telling the truth before you have time to realise it was a lie. Both ds’s have told lies that we 100% knew weren’t true they knew we knew they weren’t true. Often battling with them which do was most guilty of ended up with them backed into a corner digging their heels in about how true what they were saying was.
I found it easier to quietly point out it wasn’t true with an occasional timely reminder about the boy that cried wolf and a reminder about how it was important that they didn’t tell lies because if they really were ill/in trouble or whatever I’d not believe them then moving on.

If you do some googling you’ll see that yep most kids lie and that actually it can be viewed as a developmental milestone as there is certain cognitive processes in telling a lie.

My 2yo old has already learned to lie, when asked if he has a dirty nappy.

[Proud]

My niece (4) told me very soberly recently that she had a bad leg because 'mommy hurt it'. Poor old mommy almost fell off the chair in shock.

I was then informed that mommy and daddy were bad to DN because they left her 'at school yesterday and she had to sleep there and it was scary'. Bearing in mind that the day before I saw her was a Sunday...

Kids tell fibs. They all do it, some are more skilled than others. What matters is the reactions they get from telling those lies.

If your DSD is doing it for attention then she's getting it from you, it's just not necessarily positive. You need to address the lies, granted, but in a less confrontational way. By saying 'that's not true' and then ignoring you're giving her less reason to lie again. Then when she admits to a lie or tells the truth, giving her positive attention will reinforce truthfulness.

But honestly, yeah, it is what kids do. Make less of a big deal about it and it'll become less of a big deal for her too.

DS 2 used to do this, I talked with him about how he would feel if his friends told him a story and pretended it actually happened, it might hurt his feelings and the next time the friend told him about something, he would probably just not listen as he would think it didnt actually happen.

Then after a little time has gone into that conversation, suggest that if a child had thought of something to tell a friend that was cool, or exciting, or scary but it was just a story and not really real..... then you could still tell the story, but start with wouldnt it be cool, fun, scary IF such and such happened. Then the friends would listen and might also have a cool, exciting, scary story too

I found that my DS didnt really understand the concept of a lie, but he did understand if something wasnt really real, or was a story like in a book

Is it the girls mum telling you that's what she said? Is she reliable? Is there any chance the girls mum is trying to cause trouble?

Some wise posts I concur with.

Dd at this age told her class teacher her dad was a bus driver. Much confusion at parents eveningwhen teacher asked what route he drove (actually corporate lawyer much duller than driving a bus).

I think there may be something more to DD wanting attention from her mum. I never see the immediate reaction to the lie so I am unsure if she relieves positive/negative/any attention from the lies she tells.

I love listening to DD's tales about fairies and ghosts. The lying about cruelty though upsets me.

5 year olds do lie, they continue lying when they get attention because of it. Any attention. This includes punishments because she knows it's had an effect, at 5 she's too immature to work out that this is not the reaction she wants. What she does know is that you're talking about it, dad is talking about it and mum is talking about it.

Get on the same page - parent, step parent, teachers and any other adults. Get on the same page and eye roll when she lies and then absolutely ignore it. Once she realises that there is no effect then she will stop. She doesn't know that telling people her dad hits her is any worse than saying the cat had fleas - she's not that sophisticated, yet. The more weight you give her stories, i.e. The more you punish her and recognise them, the worse this will get.

I know the instant reaction to awful lies is to be strict and firm, but honestly at this age all you will do is reinforce that this is how she can push buttons.

Your DSD's Mum is right actually OP telling lies is part and parcel of being a child,it is actually a part of a natural development.

It's part and parcel of finding out about the world around them and they're relationships with different types of people within that world.

If it carrys on for a long time(it usually appears the most between the ages of 4-6) it could be a sign of looking for attention or if the lies are only about her Dad/the teachers ect when she's staying with you it's more than likely her way of trying to figure out where she fits within your lifes and relationships.

I would try not to over react to the lies to much because as they say for a child bad attention is better than no attention at all(the no attention would be ignoring the lies)I know when it's new behavior it can be really worrying but it is generally something all children go through.

DD at this age used to tell me fantastical stories of what went on at school. They had a magician in assembly who could do real magic and turned all the children's legs into twigs and they had to beg him to turn them back etc. All I ever said was 'I don't think that's really true, is it, darling?' at which point she would usually confess to having thought it would be fab if they had someone who could do real magic in assembly instead of a boring guitar teacher drumming up business. She is now a scrupulously truthful 11 year old who will frequently offer up something she may possibly have done wrong MONTHS ago in case I somehow magically find out and punish her (I have never punished her for silly lies apart from pointing out calmly that they could not possibly be true).

It is a phase and will pass, OP. Just pull her up on it gently and remind her that actually if you lie about something, even if you've done something wrong, people will be far crosser than if you just tell the truth initially.

Nip this in the bud by talking it out. Do the Boy who Cried Wolf story, explaining that if she carries on lying no one will listen to anything she says.

She's trying to get more attention, so don't be unkind but do be matter of fact.

My DD is also 5 and has taken to making up stories. Silly ones we just smile and let it go, if it could cause upset we tackle it. She is quite receptive to the "how would you feel if someone did that to you?" angle at the moment. I'd probably go for "how would you like it if someone told your friends you'd wet yourself?" Give her a chance to answer, if she doesn't then prompt her with a few emotions "would you be happy?" "No" etc "Would you be sad?" "Well Daddy is sad when you tell people he hit you." "Do you think it's kind to tell untrue stories about people?" That kind of thing
Does she actually know what the concept of a lie is? Or is she being told off for lieing(?) and she doesn't know really what she's doing wrong?

I had no real grasp on the line between fiction and autobiography at this age and invented all sorts of believable nonsense (including a big brother whose fictitious age would have meant my mum had given birth aged about 13!)

I have ASD and it seems to be very common among children with ASD (also not uncommon among NT children, I'm not suggesting your DSD has ASD). A kind way to deal with it is to explore with the child whether this happened in real-life or in Laura*-world and encourage them to work out where the boundaries of each fall for themselves and eventually to be able to tell the story and then say without prompting "actually that might have happened in Laura-world not the real world."

I understand why your DSD's particular stories are distressing. It would be easier for you if she was casting spells or taking rockets to the moon.

*enter DSD's name here

Okay I've only skim read the full thread but has anyone else picked up on this comment from BarbarianMum ?

Do you punish her for believing in Father Christmas or the tooth fairy too?

How can we get upset with a 5 year old bending the truth when we, as adults, tell out-and-out lies to children?

The imagination of a 5 year old would make The Brothers Grimm look like amateurs. It's part of growing up.

I don't see how you can be 100% sure that your DH has never smacked his daughter, surely you aren't with them all the time?

Hmmm. So she doesn't lie to you guys, but she does to her mum? And you don't witness it you only have thr mums word for it?

I'm not sure about what's going on, but some sort of issue. And why are you punishing her so harshly for something she's never done to you. Why isn't the mum?

I'd sit her down and ask her if she said it and why?

Could the mum be trying to cause trouble?

DD at 8 told her school friends at her new school that DH robbed a bank in the country we lived in abroad and we had to come back to England as the police were after him. No wonder the parents weren't very welcoming to us! She also said she was friends with Miley Cyrus and used to have sleepovers with her.

Maybe she feels insecure in some way about her relationship with her Dad and is trying to convey that by telling lies about him? Is the relationship amicable between her Mum and Dad? Could her Mum be being negative about him to her if the lies are mainly about him?

I would make sure she has plenty of 1:1 time with her Dad, reinforce that telling lies can get people in big trouble each time she tells a lie and leave any sanctions to him.

The dad hits her one is big and understandably you are worried, but you need to find out what she is doing this.

What has happened in the last 2 months that she needs to start doing this now? (mum has new baby/new bf has moved in/new school/new teacher at school)
What are the circumstances around her living with you?
Does mum have other children at home?

I'm not sure how long you've been involved with this little girl, but she is only 5. I don't feel like you understand who/what a 5 year old is. It feels mean just when you say 'I'm not sure what she's getting out of (the story about cat/fleas)'.

Of course she doesn't know why she is saying this stuff, and of course she has no idea herself what she's 'getting out of' any of it. To me, the cat story is that her mum has something precious, and her dad is going to take that away. The story about her dad hitting her is that she can't reconcile her mum being apart from her dad, and the feeling that her dad is missing from home, and that her dad has a different home where she has to be, and that involves being away from her mum - that is a violation, in some way.

I could deconstruct all of her 'lies', but the point is, she's too young to process this stuff like an adult, so she's expressing it in other ways - all the lies involve her or something/someone she loves being powerless and a victim. : ( Poor little girl. Don't take her dolls away. : ( Love her and be kind. She was a newborn baby only 5 years ago.

I think You should explain to her that lies like that could get her daddy in big trouble and ask her why she said it. There’s a reason why she said it. I’m not saying her dad is hitting her btw but maybe someone at school told her that their dad hits them or she’s seen something she shouldn’t have. She needs to know that it’s wrong to lie about this but I don’t think she should be punished because there is a reason why she said it. I remeber When my parents divorced i was Always playing one off against the other. She might just be trying to keep her mum happy by saying what she thinks she wants to hear and vice versa