to think this isn't 'just what kids do?'

[justsomestepmum]

My five year old DSD has developed a habit of telling lies. Lies told in the past week include:

• I get angry at her if she eats meat (I'm a vegetarian)
• Her dad told her that her mums cat had fleas and he is going to get rid of her cat
• That her teacher forced her to eat something she didn't want to

When she lies she is punished by removal of one of her dolls (her most cherished possessions) from her collection for 1 week, if she lies during that week another is taken and both held for another week. She also loses a star on her star chart which means she earns no pocket money for that day.

These punishments are always accompanied by age appropriate conversations of why it's wrong to lie, how it means we can't trust her, how it can get other people in trouble and cause serious issues. She never has an answer for why she lies. The cat/fleas one being particularly pointless, not sure what she's getting out of it.

Tonight I found out she has been telling her mum that her dad smacks/hits her. I know this is not 100% not true.

We don't know how to deal with it. It's been going on for about two months and nothing we do seems to have any input. DD's mum doesn't appear to think it's an issue and when I brought it up with her said it's 'just what kids do.'

The lies always seem to be about something DH or I are meant to have done or said and are told to mum. On two occasions they have been about teachers. As far as I recall there have been no lies she has told to us about things mum has done/said.

AIBU to think this isn't the norm? I'm at a loss as to how to get her to stop lying and more importantly work out why shes doing it.

Who does she live with. Do you think she's craving more of her moms attention.

You are being very hard on her. She is a five year old girl.

Try positive reinforcement - find a quiet space every day for you or her dad to sit down and cuddle her and talk her about her day. During that time ask gently did she tell anybody anything that wasn't true that day. If she did tell lies, talk about them - why did she tell them? Will they upset anyone? Can you put them right together? If she hasn't told any lies that day make a big fuss of her, tell her how proud you are.

Try not to stress over this, everyone tells lies everyday. She needs to understand the differences between the harmless social lies that make lives a bit smoother and absolute whoppers that could hurt people and with guidance her parents and you she will get there in the end.

You are too worried about what other people think, OP. Do not punish your child because of this.

The lying about cruelty though upsets me.

I imagine having her cherished doll taken away upsets her. However, she's a 5 year old child and you're an adult. I find it worrying that you are anxious to deny that these punishments are cruel to a small child, but you seem to want us to feel sorry for the upset this is causing you. I can imagine it isn't nice - but please remember she's very young and is not going to be doing this out of a malicious desire to get her dad into trouble.

She says "dad says cat's got fleas so he's going to get rid of it". You can cap that. Turn it into a story which is clearly untrue, like "yes, and he's thinking about the giraffes we have in the garden. He thinks they might sleep on the bed instead of the cat."

If you turn it into a story then you are directing and managing her imagination, and showing her that her lies are just stories which no one will believe, but also that she can use that imagination more constructively.

You say she tells the lies to her mum, not to you/her dad.

Then you say you like the fantastical and imaginative stories about fairies that she tells.

1. Are you punishing her for something that she did with her mother that you don't even witness?

1. If she doesn't understand the distinction between fun stories and serious lies, don't you think she is confused at the inconsistency?

I don't think it's right that you punish her for something that her mother might be dealing with already. Just because you don't like the way the mother is dealing with it.

Given the consensus here that lying is normal for children this age, you can tone down the "what if she tells her teacher that her dad hits her" stuff. You have read enough here to know that a teacher wouldn't necessarily take it as gospel anyway.

Lastly, why are you so distressed about this? Your punishments are harsh and ineffective. Her parents should be dealing with this - her dad should be seeking professional advice if necessary, not an angry, strict stepmother.

Personally I find it odd you're not saying what the living arrangements are and how they've come about.

It's unusual for children to be primarily resident at fathers house, not saying it's wrong but it is unusual.

And given the type of lies the background I feel is relevant.

They sound like lies to draw attention and also to get others ‘on side’ and manipulate. So,

The first thing is to be very calm, her Mum, dad and teacher and you, and do not be manipulated. It’s a very insecure place for her to be in, knowing she can stir up trouble. So all involved need to NOT REACT.
Just brush it off, make it clear you know it’s not true, play it down.

Big punishments will just hype up the drama. The girl probably believes her own lies at this stage.

Your goal is to downplay the drama.

Tell the girl that it’s important not to lie, because of trust. Trust is knowing what is real and what isn’t. Be gentle about this. Be clear but gentle. If she insists it’s real just hug her. Don’t get into fights.

Then her dad and mum need to work on doing nice things with her. No punishments. She’s probably an unhappy confused girl at the minute.

I agree with the majority of other posters.

Mum and/or Dad need to sit down and quietly explain that big lies like that could cause a lot of trouble and she doesn't need to lie to get their attention.

The doll thing is weird. Stop doing it.

I can remember my 5 year old coming home and telling me they'd had a fire at school, the engines came, fire everywhere and they had to go on the roof.

Same child told everyone he was having a party that afternoon and we had a bouncy castle.
Invited lots of friends round.
I looked a right dick telling all the parents it wasn't true.

I found explaining how it can hurt people, upset them.
Read so many books to him on the crying wolf theme.
They soon grow out of it.
I used to ask which version he was telling me today

Maybe she is having problems with the massive reward/punishment systems you're inflicting on her at such a young age. She doesn't know how to express that she is frustrated with being expected to act in a way that is beyond her developmental level, so her frustration comes out as lying about other things she could theoretically be frustrated by, since she can't articulate the real issue.

Lastly, why are you so distressed about this? . . . Her parents should be dealing with this
Erm because I love her and I'm her primary carer? Good god.

Behaviour is communication
Try a d work put what she is communicating. Clearmy she goes between two houses.
Stop punishing her.
It s mean. She is five. Making up fantasies trying out stories. Getting attention.
Play along with them if you can . As was suggested above.

If she says " dad hit " then tell her no dad never hits.

Calmly and quietly.

Punishing her removing favourite toys is over the top. The child is seeking love and understanding. Read "How to talk..."

She actually loves the regularity and routine of star chart. Shes had a star chart since age 3 and we just change the things on it.

Doll removal put in place by DH as she continued to lie and star chart not working. Doll removal is only used for lying.

No point in going on with this anymore. It's just turned into a angry, strict, evil step mother thread. MN hates stepmums.

You have had plenty of good advice. If neither of her parents are her primary carers then it's not a huge assumption to see where this is coming from.

I've had a wealth of good advice. I appreciate all the good advice and resources I've got.

My stepson used to do this a lot. Apparently I would lick him in his bedroom if he didn’t eat his veg. Being a kid is hard, being passed about after a traumatic event is hard. I’d seriously suggest having a look at doing a parenting course if you can. I wish I had done years ago because my decisions would of been very very different. Maybe worth speaking to school. Ours has a family worker who has been brilliant about this sort of thing. Being a step mum is hard

If you are her primary carer then maybe her lies/fantasies are based on thinking that she is making her mum 'happy' if she pretends her life isn't all rosy with you?

Nobody could expect a 5 year old to deal with that sort of divided loyalty, even a teenager or adult would struggle to find the balance.

Please don't take her dolls away from her, sit and talk to her about how it's okay to love her mum, dad and stepmum. It's okay to sometimes feel sad and confused but it's not okay to tell lies/fibs about people.

It does sound from the outside that she wants more time with, or to live with her mum. Why doesn't she? Seems an unusual arrangement.

Doll punishment is horrible and far too Victorian. Your DH is wrong to install this punishment which seems also to be ineffective. Not surprising as DSD is not yet 6 years old.

Yes you ignore it, she’s only 5. She’s just testing the boundaries, she’s checking to see how all of the adults in her life will respond. If you joined up and worked together as a team, showing your DSD that you’re all on the same page, she’ll tire of it. I’d make a joke of it, I’d tickle her and say “are you fibbing?” and keep giggling until she admits it. It’s just her imagination, at five there’s a definite blur between imaginary and reality, and all of the new rules she’s learning in reception class, she’s just testing and checking. In reality it’s only serious if Dad does hit her, you have nothing to worry about if he doesn’t. Teachers hear all sorts of tall stories all of the time. My DD reception teacher was astonished that she didn’t have a sister as DD had discussed her every day at length. Similarly when DS3 was born DS2 (4) told everyone at nursery that the baby was only visiting for a very short time as his real family wanted him back 😂

It does sound from the outside that she wants more time with, or to live with her mum. Why doesn't she? Seems an unusual arrangement.

It isn't always best for DC to live with their DM funnily enough.

Can we give the OP a break about the living arrangements and rtft. She and the child's father are the resident parents, there's nothing 'odd' about that. It's not 1958.