to think this isn't 'just what kids do?'

[justsomestepmum]

My five year old DSD has developed a habit of telling lies. Lies told in the past week include:

• I get angry at her if she eats meat (I'm a vegetarian)
• Her dad told her that her mums cat had fleas and he is going to get rid of her cat
• That her teacher forced her to eat something she didn't want to

When she lies she is punished by removal of one of her dolls (her most cherished possessions) from her collection for 1 week, if she lies during that week another is taken and both held for another week. She also loses a star on her star chart which means she earns no pocket money for that day.

These punishments are always accompanied by age appropriate conversations of why it's wrong to lie, how it means we can't trust her, how it can get other people in trouble and cause serious issues. She never has an answer for why she lies. The cat/fleas one being particularly pointless, not sure what she's getting out of it.

Tonight I found out she has been telling her mum that her dad smacks/hits her. I know this is not 100% not true.

We don't know how to deal with it. It's been going on for about two months and nothing we do seems to have any input. DD's mum doesn't appear to think it's an issue and when I brought it up with her said it's 'just what kids do.'

The lies always seem to be about something DH or I are meant to have done or said and are told to mum. On two occasions they have been about teachers. As far as I recall there have been no lies she has told to us about things mum has done/said.

AIBU to think this isn't the norm? I'm at a loss as to how to get her to stop lying and more importantly work out why shes doing it.

It is very normal and dare I say good thing for her to be lying. It is developmentally expected and shows she is experimenting using her imagination, soon she will turn that skill into writing stories and painting imaginative pictures.She will get it wrong just as we all do when we try out a new skill. Personally, I prefer not to punish for things that are normal developmentally but that is a decision for her mum and dad.

If she tells school dad hits her then they will record it, to build a picture if she shows other signs of abuse. but they know young children lie. If a child says a parent hits them, then you keep an eye out for unusual bruises, a change in temperament, possibly art or written work suggesting things aren't as they should be.

Also what you and I understand when someone says they have been hit and what a child understands as being hit are often two different things. Accidentally elbowing or head butting someone when you turn around or bend over to pick something up we would understand to be an accident whereas children would see it as the same as being pushed or punched.

to think this isn't 'just what kids do?'

All. Kids. Lie. They lie to themselves as much as to us. Parents who tell themselves 'mine never lie' are unbearable to deal with in school. It is entirely normal for a 5yo to do this.

There is very good evidence that punishing lying trains kids to be better liers. Now obviously sometimes you have to punish, but this is a long way from one of those times.

We keep having conversations about how people could get in trouble with the lies she tells but it doesn't seem to make a difference.

It will, eventually. Praise effusively when she admits she lies or tells a difficult truth, ignore or gently challenge when she lies. 5yo can't understand hypotheticals- if there is real harm from the lie explain the hurt caused, otherwise leave it.

Read up on Therapeutic Parenting. If you're on Facebook there's a support group. Bad behaviour has natural consequences rather than punishments like toys removed.

If doll is her most cherished possession.. she can't stop you taking it away but she can have another type of control; she can decide when you take it away. She's exerting her little bit of control.

So basically she's doing it to get a type of bad attention. You've created this situation & you're setting the stakes higher & higher. So she comes right back at you testing the boundaries on how high the stakes can go.

So we should just ignore it and let her go around telling people her dad hits her?

I would ignore that rather than your current strategy. But even better, just calmly correct her & calmly tell her that if she says untruths you may not believe her at times when she tells the truth. Give her a stake in wanting truth more than attention-getting-fibs. You must Stop giving a toss what other people think.

I lied about stuff all the time at that age. Didn’t involve other people though - more wild assertions about myself.

I was a very unhappy 4/5/6 year old but also pretty bright.

Get her to channel her abilities into writing stories perhaps.

And yes, I did it for attention and to make myself feel better about ‘me’.

I teach reception.

All 5 year old lie. All of them. They either make up crazy stuff for ‘fun’ or they do it to get out of a situation.
They all lie, without exception.

I love when parents come in saying that their child has told them that xyz has happened and then refuse to believe when I say it’s not true. I get the ‘my child doesn’t lie’ line. Yes they do. They all do. Even the good ones.

Maybe at the heart of this OP, is that the daughter is wanting to live with her mum and you don`t like it at all.

A few times a wwwk my ds (5) tells an elaborate but believable tale e.g. about school. An hour later he could tell me he made it up...he's dreaming, imagining, thinking what if. I usually say that was quite a story, would that have been fun etc. and thank him for letting me know it wasn't true as it's important.

I don’t think it’s that unusual. As people have said could it be for attention?

For context I remember my nephew telling his teacher age 5 that his Daddy was in jail. He wasn’t. He’s never been in prison or any trouble with the law.

My other niece told her teacher at a similar age that her gran fell down the stairs drunk and hurt herself. My gran was tee total. My gran was mortified as she did the school pick up. Kids at that age can lie and it’s how you react.

Kids lie, particularly at this age. It's a developmental milestone. It's normal and it's healthy that she's doing it. She's exploring boundaries and learning about the world. Please don't punish your child for age appropriate behaviour. You can and should help her negotiate her way through this in a supportive manner. Help her learn to choose to tell the truth more by telling her you don't like it when she doesn't tell the truth. Praising her and make her feel good when she does. Punishing her won't stop this happening, it's part of human nature, but you may push her away and she needs you close to help her navigate through this.

DS aged 6 told his teacher on a Monday morning that we had made him sleep outside in the shed all weekend. The teacher asked me about it at pick up.
We had gone camping and stayed in a glamhut

Same DS also told his teacher he had no covers on his bed and I would not give him any......I had put them in the wash that morning and I refused to put them back on his bed as they were wet. He would only have that set of bedding as it was football themed.

Kids do lie and it seems you (sorry) harsh punishment is not working.
Have you spoken to mum and teachers about it?

It is something kids do. Obviously you need to explain why it's wrong but I think making a punishment out of it is a bit over the top. Kids that age often make up tall tales. I would correct her, remind her of the difference between truth and lies, tell her about the boy who cried wolf etc and when she lies about other people, sure she knows that it can lead to a lot of serious trouble and maybe the police would be called about it.

Maybe look out for children's books explaining why it's important to tell the truth.

I would talk to her more about it instead of punishing her. Clearly punishing her hasn't worked as she's still coming up with more lies.

I have DD (4) that also tells lies - she never ever lies about me but she lies about nursery, her DF, my DP, her brothers and her DG, when questioned she says she likes telling silly stories - 2 of the lies worried me 1- my DP smacked her, 2 - her DG bit her leg?! I knew it wasn’t true but had concerns nursery or other family might believe her but they didn’t and she never maintains a lie, when she’s finished telling it she basically laughs and says it’s fun. We talked about lies that get people into trouble, went down the ‘boy who cried wolf’ lines and we basically ignore the silly lies ... it’s getting less and less and we’re quite sure the phase is passing. The best advice on here is to talk and then ignore. Good luck and try not to worry - also the punishment probably wasn’t right but no one gets a book on perfect parenting so ignore the harsh comments and mark it down to experience 💐

When my kids lie for example the teacher said I had to do this, I say oh really well in that case I am going to phone her. Or she will say her friend did this or that I say oh right I will speak to her mum. 99% of the time the story will very quickly change, we then just discuss how lying can get people in trouble and not to do it then move on. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

That's harsh Abricot and not necessarily the case at all. It could equally be that the OPs dsd is perfectly happy with living with her dad/OP but wanting her mum's attention. Or is angry with her mum and knows saying these things will upset her. Or likes the attention she gets when she says these things. Or a whole host of other things.

Totally normal part of child development, it's actually a concern if a child around this age NEVER lies.

It's their way of deconstructing their world to understand it, practising using their imagination, developing their confidence and a sense of power in what they say.

Not only are the consequences ott they're ineffective - because you can't discipline a child out of normal development unless you pretty much abuse them.

Did her mother or anyone else believe her?

I'm guessing this is not only your first experience of parenting but that you've not much experience with children generally? It's hard and a learning curve for you as well as her.

Do some reading up on normal development and watch some helpful videos maybe? I'm out of touch with materials now but I'm sure other posters will have recommendations.

I taught a little girl who had 4 brothers and her mum was pregnant. She came in one day to tell us all about her new baby sister, Rachel, details an the homebirth etc Peter arrived 4 days later much to her disgust!

Don't take the lies personally. It is pretty normal at 5. As others have said the punishment seems off.

It seems to all be lies designed to get sympathy, and all told to mum, do you know how mum reacts to these lies?

Lots of children make stuff up, apparently I threatened to lock a 5 year old in the cupboard the other day while they were being naughty, I didn't I did consider locking myself in the cupboard for a bit of peace and quiet though honestly anyone working with children knows kids lie a lot so please don't worry too much about what if she says it at school

I think this may be a symptom of not being very happy, You seem very very strict and something may be going wrong here.

I am sure you have the best intentions but perhaps it would help you to see a family therapist to get some perspective?

I dont even really consider it lying at that age. Its just story telling and getting carried away. They dont even know its not yrue, i dont think, alot of the time. They certainly dont understand the implications. I always think being a yound kid must be like being on a permanent acid trip

Actually it's a very healthy part of childhood development learning to lie, read up on it. I have three DC and around 4-6 they all did it. Chill out

I think it sounds like attention seeking from her Mum for whatever the reason is. But I would never punish my 5 year old in this way it’s too harsh. Also if her Mum is brushing it off as no big deal why are you getting to know and making it a huge issue.
If my 5 year old did this I would speak to him about how it hurts peoples feeling when you lie and perhaps try to show him by telling his dad he’s said something about him ( an obvious lie) to which he would protest his innocence and probably get upset and hopefully point made.

The removing a doll is age inappropriate better for 8 and above it will just come across as unkind. However star charts etc are a great idea but you need to flip it. A weekend with no lies gets a treat praise don’t punish at this age.

It may be normal to lie but it definitely is not normal to lie about being hit by ones dad!

Mouseville65 Thanks for the nice post.
RandomMess Thank you for the recommendation.