To ask how you would feel if your adult child decided to emigrate to Oz or NZ

[CaraBosse1]

Be honest and don't say you'd be "cool" about it if you wouldn't really

My point is that illness can strike at any time- and is much more prevalent than you would suppose.

Well yes, and that would be entirely consistent with the idea that nobody should move away at any time, ever.

I'd miss them but would support and accept their decision. I lived in NZ for a year myself and another younger relative spent a year there. The housing definitely isn't better in NZ. Lots of wooden poorly heated houses for a cool climate. I think people going for lifestyle or affordability reasons would be better looking round the UK or changing their lifestyle here.
You only know if someone has permanently emigrated several years down the line. A lot of folk change their minds.

NZ housing is notoriously bad.

Saying that...if you're not well-off in the UK, it's also pretty shocking.

Damp, ill-maintained council houses are the pinnacle of most low-income people's hopes.

We are fortunate she decided not to go a long distNce away .

Jesus wept- so DC aren't even allowed to move away to Uni now? Blimey. What's the boundary- one page of google maps? Maybe you should consider those electric collars they give farm dogs.

Devastated but I wouldn’t stop dd. She’s only 4 so maybe not such a big deal now but I’ve actually known people to move over to join their dc in Oz as they missed them so much. I would be one of the ones trying to move I reckon

Look the fact that parents try to be stoic about it doesn't change the fact that the kids are acting selfishly. Sorry but this is something that's really affecting us at the moment. My in laws are in their 80s and are needing lots of support now. FIL is in early stages of alzheimers and has become incontinent. MIL is just very frail and can't cope. So my husband and I have given up our social lives to do nothing but go round and look after them all weekend and some evenings. It shouldn't all be down to us. My husband had 2 siblings who should be sharing the care. But they both decided a few years ago that they fancied living by the sea!

headinhands I moved abroad when my parents were in their mid 50s and early 60s. Two of my siblings lived near my parents. One has (and had then) a hugely codependent relationship with my parents - they effectively pay her a hefty allowance (they pay her to walk their dog when she walks hers, but they board her dog with them for several weeks per year and have it at their house most of the day for nothing). They take and fetch her daughter to and from her private school an hour's drive away, and to activities the same distance away. They spend large amounts of money on her daughter. In return they expect her husband to do endless odd jobs for them.

When my father was ill that sister was too busy to take him to hospital (apparently my mother was too - very much still married) so he took a taxi, and the other local sister who they don't help out visited and fetched him. I called him in hospital every day, which he liked as he was very bored. I went back to visit.

My parents are well off and can afford to pay for physical care - there is no chance at all their local children will do hands on care.

My parents have let slip that the sister they pay an allowance to is angling for them to move into their annex and give her the house, so she bloody well should do the bulk of the caring! I doubt she will, though she'll be about which I suppose will be a comfort. They love their house though, they restored it from virtual derilict state and my mother refers to it as one of her children The annexneefs restoring itself and is on the first floor over a garage.

My sister's relationship with my parents doesn't seem right to me, I think it may have been better if she'd moved to Australia!

My family have always travelled, dh and I have travelled. DD wants to study in California and we are happy to support her to get there. And if they wanted to move permanently of course I'd miss them but I'd also be impressed and wish them luck and probably visit a lot!

Jesus wept- so DC aren't even allowed to move away to Uni now? Blimey. What's the boundary- one page of google maps? Maybe you should consider those electric collars they give farm dogs.

Jesus wept - are you incapable of reading a full post?

The poster said she was fortunate the dd was nearby because she was undergoing cancer treatment in hospital near uni so this way they could visit/support her easily.

Singingtherapy

I would argue that you should look at paid care/home options rather than taking it all on yourself. Even if your siblings were close by there's no guarantee they would help. There could be other ways that the overseas siblings could help - deliveries/Amazon next day, regular calls/WhatsApp.

These are all strategies our families use. The elderly relatives are not in the same country as any of their children. We would not have the capacity to take on regular care work (due to work commitments and children) and so would look to plan thoughtful , kind support services.

There's no medals for martyring yourself. Clear communication and practical planning is key.

Hope I'm not sounding harsh, but it's not good for you to give up your social life and free time wholly for care. That leads to burnout. That's no good for the elderly people involved either. There is a balance.

I want my daughter to have the best and most rewarding life possible, to be happy and seize opportunities when they come along. To achieve whatever she wants. I don't want her to feel tied to one small area of the world because that's where I chose to make a life. I want her to be free to make the best decisions for her. If that is the other side of the world, yes I'd be sad and I'd miss her terribly, but I wouldn't for a single second want to clip her wings and guilt trip her into doing what is best for me.

I am astounded at the utter selfishness of people like Speakout who expect their children to live close by- in no small part to care for them as they get older, it seems. So children should have any independent thought or have goals in life which can't be met in the area you grew up? What if they cannot achieve their goals living in this country? What if they fall in love with somewhere from elsewhere and want to follow their heart? What if they get an incredible opportunity? You'd rather they never achieved their goals/followed their heat/experienced an adventure? What if that made them unhappy? You would seriously rather that happened? How incredibly selfish, small minded and insular. Why on earth would you wish to limit your children in that way? I think actually it is people with those attitudes who are cruel and selfish- you want your children to live the life YOU want them to lead in the location of YOUR choice, not the life THEY want. I think that is the epitome of selfishness.

I agree, some people don't have children and they still manage to be looked after with carers, social services. My pension is to pay for that sort of thing, I don't expect my kids to do it and have told them if I get dementia I'm happy to go in a care home and don't want them spending hours running after me, especially when I may not appreciate it and be much more cantankerous.

In my experience, simply living in closer proximity doesn't guarantee closeness. I am closer to my mum's side of the family despite seeing them far less often. I saw my dad's side almost every week/every other week but never felt that close. I know my grandparents loved us, but really they didn't seem very interested in us and didn't make much effort- we were just there. They were never unkind or unpleasant or cold, just a bit indifferent I suppose. Hard to explain. Same for my aunts/uncles. Not very close to my cousins either.

Whereas my maternal grandparents I saw maybe 3 times a year- for a week or two at a time. We called and I used to write to my granny quite lot (she's passed away now sadly). I have so many wonderful memories of them and have always felt so close. My grandmother remains one of the most special people I have ever met. My uncle lives in NZ and has done since I was a small child. I'm closer to him and my aunt than to most of my family on dad's side who live about an hour away. A lot is about having things in common, hitting it off and getting on- the other is about how much effort you make in maintaining the relationship.

Especially when you're leaving other siblings who will take on that extra responsibility. I'm curious how people who've emigrated frame it in their minds? How they feel if they have siblings organising care for their parents, visiting, and all that it entails. Has it impacted on the relationship with their sibling? Out of six siblings, only one lives close enough and is able enough to care for our ageing parents - and the one that's left, only stayed because his wife would not move away from her family. We all do what we can, fly home once or twice a year - my brother and his wife are amazing though. There are no obligations - if you don't want to or can't help, that's just the way it is.
We will not expect our kids to look after us in old age - we'll be spending all the inheritance on care - we've told them not to expect much!

Being the sibling who doesn't see the parents so often means that I notice them aging far more than the ones who see them regularly - eg one of my parent's driving has gone downhill very fast, to the extent that I'm not sure they should be on the road anymore.

But how can I have that conversation when I'm back visiting for 5 days then trotting back overseas? It's my siblings who would have to pick up the pieces, both from the immediate push-back and anger I suspect the conversation would elicit, but also the longer term effect of the GPs not helping with the school run, ferrying kids to sports clubs and parties and all the other things that they do.

palliser
Thank you for reading my post properly.
Clearly I should have left my DD to attend hospital on her own. If any of you have sat there whilst being given a poor prognosis, as I have, and thus clearly more empathetic, will understand why it's helpful to have a close family member attend with you.

And no, I couldn't travel far myself, so had she gone off to a far away uni, she would have been on her own.

elements
My point is in answer to the question from the op, is more circumspect than what it would have been years ago. Like a divorcee at a wedding, I'm more conscious of things not working out. Unlike doweger I didn't end up with a fabulous career, nor my health, and I guess I wanted to point out there are downsides sometimes, to being away from parents, or indeed children

HeadoftheHive a cancer diagnosis and treatment is obviously a truly horrible thing to go through, but are you suggesting everyone should live thier lives with fear of illness striking as their guiding principle? To hobble your children with that seems like such a very limiting, gloomy, timid way to make life choices. It sounds like a recipe for a life of missed opportunities and roads not taken, adventurous not had, and lots of time to regret the things you didn't try, didn't experience, turned down just in case something bad happened, a life of safe bets and declined opportunity all due to fear of what if?

No, but I think it's part of understanding what you might be giving up- for a return of limited opportunities in my case. That's not to say don't do it, but be aware of what you might lose in the process.
As for fear of what if, well, we do try and overcome that fear, but my children have almost a fifty fifty chance of getting cancer young. I had a 90% chance. When you get to those sorts of odds, it's less easy to be gung Ho.

I guess I wanted to point out there are downsides sometimes, to being away from parents, or indeed children

I would guess that the majority of people who emigrate are aware that there are downsides to being so far away from family. They might not know them all, or anticipate them applying to their situation, but unless you have a very toxic or dysfunctional relationship with your parents and siblings, you would be very odd indeed not to see this as one of the biggest issues with moving overseas

It sounds like a recipe for a life of missed opportunities and roads not taken

The thing is, if you emigrate, there are also missed opportunities and roads not taken.I am an emigrant and I missed a lot as a result. I missed every single funeral of my aunts and uncles. That included every single get together after the funerals when all the rest of the extended family got together. My kids haven't experienced that either. I missed my cousins weddings, my friends parties etc.

I spent 10 years using all of my vacation time to return home. 10 years with no holiday anywhere but my home place (and that is not a holiday). I accepted that my sibling would make the major decisions about my elderly parents when needed because the sibling was the one nearby doing the heavy lifting. Sometimes I disagreed - not on major issues - but I felt I didn't have the right to interfere when I wasn't around.

And even if you do pay for care as an elderly person, your care will be a lot better if there is a concerned family member who checks on you regularly, says thank you to your carers etc.

I did emigrate so not saying no one should move away but I think it is simplistic to say moving away is all opportunity and adventure and staying home is hobbling and limited. There is good and bad in every choice.

I'd say I was very upset and disappointed. I'd selfishly say they should stay. I don't care if that makes me a twat.

I wanted to point out there are downsides sometimes, to being away from parents, or indeed children

I'm not disagreeing with your premise Head that there are potential downsides, or that badness could strike at any time. In fact, quite the reverse: that if one is to avoid moving away due to being aware of potential downsides striking, that there is never going to be a good time to think about moving away. Thus, one ought to never think of moving away at all.

So other head's specific question about the selfishness of moving away from ageing parents, while emotionally powerful, was (for me) missing the point.

palliser obviously there are downsides. Returning to the international marriages though - kids in those have as much of a chance of growing up close to grandparents and extended family as kids in families where parents are just from a few hundred miles apart.