To ask how you would feel if your adult child decided to emigrate to Oz or NZ

[CaraBosse1]

Be honest and don't say you'd be "cool" about it if you wouldn't really

Here's one that'll make the "it's selfish" brigade angry. I only live about an hour away from my parents but I have a strong desire to move to California (I have a US visa for work that I feel I should make use of) and my parents couldn't be more encouraging. They were so pleased for me when I got the visa because they knew I was step closer to my dream. And when I had a mental health breakdown in my current city, the option of moving back hoe was mooted, but my mum was actively encouraging me not to because she knows how unhappy and stifled I'd feel back in the small town where I grew up. She doesn't take that as a reflection on our relationship - because it isn't! I love her lots and we're very close, but she has my best interests at heart and can understand that surroundings are important to me.

So much of this is about what you are used to. If your entire family lives in the same place and you are forever popping round to one another’s houses, you all marry local people then it seems like a massive step to even move to the next town.

This is the crux of it I think. It's been an interesting thread because I was pondering last night why I'd be relaxed about it (or rather why my base assumption is that the DC probably won't live in the same country as me) and I think it's because the family has a history of distant moves. DGM moved from Ireland to Liverpool during the war, and never went back, met DGF and then they moved to Yorkshire (which was a long way from DGF's family with no car and only a 1 day weekend). Then DF moved from there to the south coast for his PhD and never went back. DM met him at Uni in Yorkshire (she was from Leicestershire) and she moved south with him and they're still there. I never had that "everyday" relationship with my DGP (saw them 2 weeks/year) but I had great times with them. DM never knew her GP (died before she was born) and DF rarely saw his because they were on the other side of the Pennines . DH and I were living in London before we moved overseas and saw DP probably 4 x a year. Therefore my DP didn't really have a big expectation of having that everyday relationship with my DC and I don't have it either.

I do accept though that a lot of how you feel about it depends on your ability to travel long distances. DM is 70 and in great health but due to a back operation would really struggle to do the Australia flight (would only be feasible in business and even then....). She comes to Asia once a year and then we do a trip back in the summer and every other Christmas and I normally do a long weekend on my own as well. I personally wouldn't move anywhere I couldn't see my parents once a year but I might feel different in different economic circumstances - if I could give my DC a much better life somewhere else - there are a lot of Yorkshiremen working in those Australian coal mines, to cite an extreme example.

I also think there are relatively few people who emigrate with an initial expectation of permanency. Most working age people living overseas intend to come home. A lot don't, or at least spend a lot longer away than they expected (our initial expectation was 3 years- we're in year 11) but they didn't leave with that intention. There's also an increasing expectation in large companies that people will be internationally mobile, at least for 2 year stretches, so it's not always 100% self-initiated.

Johnny yes...I left the Uk for Oz with my Aussie husband and often think of my Great Grandmother who left Arran for England alone aged 18 for work.

That must have felt like a huge wrench and a massive change....Arran back then was not much more than rocks and fishermen.

She worked in service, did well and married a man with a bit of cash...enough to open a shop.

Then my Mother and her siblings had far more luxury than she'd have dreamed of in Arran.

When I left, it was to go to a country I didn't really know but at least I had a family waiting for me at the other end...DH's family are great and love me like one of their own.

Had we stayed in England then HIS family would have been missing us.

I also think there are relatively few people who emigrate with an initial expectation of permanency.

This, very much.

The people who haven't, and would never do it, reveal how little they understand the decision (and decision-making process) with every post they write.

We are currently overseas (not as far as Oz, but it's still a long and expensive journey, with one flight a day that would get us back to the UK within 24 hours, so not ideal for emergencies)

Both DH's parents and my parents have been supportive, but their hearts are not really in it. They have been to visit, try to skype lots and do things like email DS direct which they almost certainly wouldn't have done if we had been back in the UK and saw them more frequently

However, they all moved for work when they were younger, it's just that in the 1960s being bold and moving often meant from one end of the country to the other, not the other side of the world. So they know why we are doing what we are doing, but if we told them we were coming home tomorrow and never moving again, they would be over-joyed, frankly

It's also worth saying that one of the reasons DH and I decided to do a stint overseas now - apart from things like schooling for the kids and the right job opportunities - is that all our parents are still healthy and have no significant medical issues. We all know that as the years go by that won't be the case, and I certainly wouldn't have agreed to go abroad knowing that one of my parents was going into the final furlong

but if we told them we were coming home tomorrow and never moving again, they would be over-joyed, frankly

As would all the fully, 100% supportive parents.

and I certainly wouldn't have agreed to go abroad knowing that one of my parents was going into the final furlong

I think you'd probably struggle to find anyone who'd do that.

I moved with an expectancy of permanancy....but you just don't know what will happen.

For all I know,my DC might decide to live in England...I might go back if they do.

I'm open....a lot of Aussie kids move to Asia too...there's just NO knowing.

Had we stayed in the UK, one or both of my children might still choose to live elsewhere.

They can do as they choose as can I.

But can you imagine telling the au pair that she must be an awful person to travel abroad? It's a different narrative and could be hurtful. - and I don't think it's right that you should attempt to influence a young person who very dependent on you for employment.

It's very strange that I'm the one who holds my own opinions - and tries not to influence my children either way, have moved ridiculously often (11 house moves in as many years), worked abroad, lived apart from DH for work, he now works largely in other countries, yet can see there are benefits to remaining close to parents and home. You can't always get back, no matter how much you want to.

I agree with you get on that track without any thoughts of it being permanent, but sometimes it's very hard to get off that track and move back to where you want to be.

I guess one if the things I really yearn for, and strangely my kids have asled for this too, is to live close enough to GP to pop round for a cuppa, rather than have to make a journey. IT has left a sense of unfulfilling, hole in my life and the moving around didn't compensate.

No one replied to my earlier post about emigrating when you have ageing parents. Especially when you're leaving other siblings who will take on that extra responsibility. I'm curious how people who've emigrated frame it in their minds? How they feel if they have siblings organising care for their parents, visiting, and all that it entails. Has it impacted on the relationship with their sibling?

I appreciate that the parents were supportive if they discussed it. Did they also discuss it with the siblings? Even if the siblings didn't voice it isn't it obvious that there's a lot more weight being put upon the remaining siblings?

If my sibling came and said she was emigrating I'd probably do the adult thing and be supportive but inside it would seem quite selfish. Sorry.

It’s a strange world where a discussion is seeing as giving advice and a young adult working abroad is seeing as teenager/child...

headinhands - in our case, we made the decision to leave the UK (and therefore leave DH's parents who are in Ireland), to be closer to my Dad who had bowel cancer. My brother (only sibling) was also in London, so my and my family were moving back to be closer to him.

We felt slightly better about about moving so far away from DH's parents, because one of his brothers lives a 15-minute drive away, and they have children (PILs's grandchildren), and he has another brother in London.

My Dad had no children close by and no grandchildren, and was widowed and ill.

We made the decision to be close to him, and I'm thankful for that, as he died 4 years later. We got to live relatively close by for his last years.

People probably aren't answering your question because it can often be complex, with myriad different factors including decisions.

Basically - we tried to do the right thing (which I think we did), knowing we were never going to be able to please everyone.

Our decision hasn't impacted on our relationship with our siblings in the slightest.

headinhands Having worked in age care, I can tell you that in most instances, the care/responsibility falls primarily to one child (maybe two children), regardless of the distance between siblings or between child and parent.

This was certainly the case with the majority of elderly people I worked with. It was almost always one child who we'd consult with, and we'd be lucky if we ever laid eyes on the other children, even when those other children only lived within 2 hours of their parent.

• myriad different factors influencing decisions.

head I am an only child so no sibling to look after my ‘ageing’ parents (they would absolutely hate that word btw even though they are well into their 70s).

If I was moving to another country (which might well be happening to us in the next 2 years), my parents would just embrace it.
They might decide to stay in the uk (NOT their original country), they might decide to go back to our original country (which after 45 years living abroad will be like a foreign country to them) or they might decide to actually follow me and move into the country where I might settle.
But they will not expect me to make them my priority whilst making that choice, something that they have said numerous times before. Because they do not expect me to look after them as they grow older (my MIL has said the same thing btw to both her dcs who are living about half an hour away from her...)

Having lived abroad myself and seen what happens when parents get older (my grand parents), I know very well what happens when one parent is unwell and you are far away. Yes it can be hard.
However, it’s also worth remembering that even if you are living in the same country, it doesn’t mean you will be anymore available to support them. If one is living in Edinburg and the other in London, no way you will just pop round for a cuppa or help with the shopping. You probably also won’t be coming every weekend etc...
The support might well be just as minimal as if you were abroad (let’s say living in Germany or even the US).

IMO, there is no reframing to do about ‘have siblings organising care for their parents, visiting, and all that it entails.‘, no more than when one sibling is shouldering the whole responsibility about said elderly parent whilst the others do fuck all, which is the case a lot of the time anyway.
Fwiw, my mum did more for my gran when she needed Care etc... from abroad than her son did who was living in the same town than her....

Xpost with Beagle

Yep that has been my experience too.

And if you feel resentful of the burden of caring for 'ageing parents', then why would you try to restrict your own children in a similar way?

I don't think it should be seen as a burden though. I have it the other way round as I need help from parents much more than they need it from me. Even silly little things like my children doing performances at school with no one to watch them as I've been too ill to go. Living in the same community would have helped Grannie perhaps to watch which might have helped.
Or who brings me home from hospital? I have sat there wondering how I get home.
We can be independent, when well, but when ill, it's different altogether.

If the parents are actually in need of care then it’s probably an easier call - at least you know what you are staying for/leaving behind. If the parent is getting on a bit, but in good health it’s not so clear cut. When MIL was widowed we worried about her being on her own - in fact she outlived FIL by 15 years in great health and died quite very quickly after a short illness. She loved to travel and visited us wherever we lived - in fact she urged us to go farther afield! We had a chance of an American posting when my father was being treated for prostate cancer. We didn’t go because I didn’t want to be so far away and I knew my parents wouldn't be able to travel to see me. He died a year later and I’m glad we were only in France - I was able to spend a lot of time with him. It was the right thing to do. Now my mum is on her own in her 80s I want to stay within striking distance, but I’m lucky - we live in a great place. If circumstances were different my priorities might be different. It’s never clear cut - you never really know if you are making the right decision. Everyone’s circumstances are slightly different so there’s is no right or wrong thing to do.

I don't think it should be seen as a burden though
Well, my parents and PIL certainly saw that as a burden so much so that they are all very clearvthat they do not want me/H to look after them as they get older.
MIL has made it clear that she expects her dcs to find a home for her and that’s it.
My parents have also made it clear that it’s their issue and have organised themselves so they will not have to rely on me.

Even if you are not actually the one looking after them you might still want to be near enough to visit though. It’s hard to imagine what that might be like when it’s not yet on the horizon, but when your parent is coming to the end of their life spending time with them can be as much for you as it is for them. I know one of the things that helped me cope with the death of my father was knowing we’d all been able to spend time with him - so he had a good death (as far as that is possible). I’m not sure if that would have been possible if I’d been living on the other side of the world.

When I left my birth country a couple of decades ago, my parents were still relatively young and in good health. Now, of course, they're older and frailer, and their future is certainly a matter of concern for me and my brother.

Meanwhile, I have experienced a career I genuinely could not have had in my birth country, married a husband not from my birth country, had children I would not have had, lived a life I would not have lived. Is it a better life than it would have been? Who can possibly say?

But I suppose one would have to admit that, as we all know that ageing and frailty are inevitable effects of the passage of time, this simply lends weight to the idea that no children should ever leave the birthing bosom in anticipation of selfishly tormenting their siblings, destroying their relationships and violently acting against the very nature of family.

(Incidentally, at present we live fairly close to DH's ageing parents so does that offset my heinous crime? )

My point is that illness can strike at any time- and is much more prevalent than you would suppose. Proximity makes it easier to deal with the aftermath a benefit we have been very grateful of.

My DD had investigations at her local hospital for cancer. She was a student at the time, and rules are that you are referred to the local to her student address hospital. We are fortunate she decided not to go a long distNce away - I wouldn't have wanted her to be sat on her own being told bad news. As she is closer, I was able to be there with her.