Do we have to be friends?

[VinnyTheVagina]

My AIBU is: AIBU to expect more from this person? AIBU to feel like we shouldn't 'have' to be mates.

Sister-in-law and myself. Two very different people. I feel like I do a lot of pastoral stuff - checking she and kids are ok if ill ; sending flowers/gifts when times have been hard; phoning in week to say hi; making effort at birthdays and Xmas (baking cakes, thoughtful presents); engaging in conversation when we meet and asking how things are going, listening to replies. In return, what do I get? Conversational questions never reciprocated, instead she rants on and on about kids, work, money, holidays, stress and never seems to then add on 'and what about you?' Thoughtful gifts when times are hard are very rarely reciprocated. And i don't give to receive. Phoning is sometimes reciprocated but once again I listen while she talks. It's not a conversation, more a soliloquy.

An example would be last weekend I phoned. No answer. Few hours later I sent a message enquiring about a meeting she had had at work the previous day. Explanation followed about meeting, outcomes, argument in meeting, then kids, then lack of sleep then blah blah blah, yadda yadda....Not once in any reply was there a ' you ok?' Knowing full well me and DH have stuff going on with work, kids and life. Funny thing is we practically do the same job but in different companies (HR related) but she talks to me as if I have no clue about it all. And of course her role is FAR more stressful as she is slightly senior in her role.

My question is: why do I bother? Do in laws have to be friends and make this level of unreciprocated effort? What's the phrase about squeaky wheels?

You’re doing all the running in this relationship, OP, strikes me that your sil just doesn’t really care. I would stop putting in the effort/any effort. You’re getting nothing back.

Think you need to distance yourself a bit... It's causing you too much anxiety...

You and sil obviously have very different ideas about your r/s...

Also, the fact she chooses to offload to you, which really is giving a mixed message... and then doesn't reciprocate/show interest in you would suggest she's a bit of a user...!

I had a school pal like this.... By the time we were late 20s...I'd realised just how one- sided it was...I'd been a good friend, I thought: I listened, and listened, loads of laughs and giggles, and gave masses of practical support, 2 am house moves ... Think 2 abusive marriages, 2 live in partners... One stole all her money, the other one threatened her with a knife in front of toddler son... Etx. Etc....

And one day, I realised....she rarely asked anything about me... I may say something like.. I'm excited as am seeing this chap for a third date this weekend .... She would then cut me off 2 sentences in, and tell me all about her latest drama... Which if I'm honest 20 years on... Were often made worse by her bloody awful choices she made....

The final straw.. My mum died suddenly...
No call, no card, bumped into her 2 weeks later.. She knew as a mutual pal said she'd told her.. It was also all over local paper etx etx..... When I asked her in a surprised tone... I think you knew about mum? There was just loads of self-justification as to why she couldn't have made contact .... No apology for her lack of contact, basically bothering that I was in bits.... To just wasn't a good pal to me when I needed it, despite my friendship to her over the past 20 years...

Our friendship never recovered... A phone call /card, focusing on my loss would have been enough...

It was very hurtful to experience, but it told me a lot about her.. Sje called me her 'best friend', but couldn't even bring herself to make a 5mins call or put a card through the door... I lived 5 mins walk away..

You sound lovely. And lovelier than your SIL!

I think it'd be a shame to make no effort. But maybe call a little less frequently, whilst still being just as kind (and tolerant!) when you do speak to her.

OP you sound very kind.

I hardly ever phone my sister in law. We meet up about three times a year. She's quite nice but we are not great friends.

Put your effort into people who give you back the time and energy you put in, or there abouts.

I think your expectations are high, and she clearly likes things as they are, so I'd keep it to a more distant relationship, just dial it down gradually.

I don't agree with that at all. I think Vinny sounds very kind and caring, and the sort of person I would love to have as a friend

You are quite free to disagree all you like.

Doesn't change how I feel and what I think. The OP sounds like an annoying PITA to me.

You sound oddly aggressive to me.

Thank you for all replies, even the blunter ones. I think I'm just going to not bother as much and see what happens. She is so wrapped up in her world, I doubt that she will notice and that tells me all I need to know.

User149 you sound like an aggressive piece of work tbh. Even I have standards and I don't think I'd even start trying to get to know you.

I don’t think you sound stalkerish, especially if she phones you on occasion to speechify at you. MN is hoaching with posters who want fuck all to do with their extended families, except when they need them for babysitting and so on.

However, I do think you sound martyr-ish (sorry). Def check out emotionally from that relationship and focus your energies elsewhere.

@Vinnythevagina you sound like a nightmare to me. Just the kind of annoying persistent busy body who makes my life a misery. They blather on and on and poke their nose in my face and my business and my LIFE.

You sound like such a shy, retiring wallflower too.

Can’t imagine how you haven’t managed to pluck up the courage to tell all the busy bodies in your life that their attentions are unwelcome.

Butchy . Well said!

My sil has screamed at me on several occasions. Basically she doesn’t like my mother. My mother is a narcissist and horrible to me. On the first occasion she admitted she confused my mother and me. That it wouldn’t happen again. I gave her so many benefits of the doubt. Was nice to her, sent cards for her birthday even though I only ever got one in the entire time I knew her (brother obvs could have sent too but the point is I bothered to send one to her), ditto Christmas cards. Tried to give Xmas presents twice to receive nothing. Criticised me for absurd reasons. Dumped her ds on me without asking or thanking.

She also started to treat my dd the same as she treats me, from about age 6/7. Dd and I had conversations in private about it and I tried to continue the relationship for the sake of the cousins. I didn’t retaliate because I am scared of her wild reaction. Anyway, her behaviour came to a head at my stepdads funeral a couple of years later. She was awful to dd, really showed what she thinks of her. I decided from that day on we would have nothing more to do with her.

You really cannot win with some people because the deck is always set up for you to lose. Best to walk away and get some therapy if you can’t find the peace of mind.

I'm anything but a martyr I can assure you. I just have simple expectations and would like to be treated by people in the same way I treat them. It's amazed me actually how wrong some people have got me. But on the flip side it's made me realise that perhaps what she sees is not what I see. So I'm definitely taking a back seat a bit more. I'd kind of decided that before I posted here anyway. But hearing people's responses has certainly solidified that for me.

I think the polarised responses on this thread tell you all you need to know, OP. Some people like this kind of approach, others don't. There's nothing here to suggest you aren't both nice people, but you're different ones. So just accept it and let it go.

Lyingwitch said it well.

I have a family member who is very pastoral and keen to get involved with my day to day goings on. It does come across as slight virtue signalling and you do wondeall whose benefit it's all for. I try to be pleasant but I don't reciprocate and she has never picked up on this subtle message to be less invested in me and mine.

The fb quote you mentioned - another example of how we're all different. They make me cringe and always seem passively aggressively directed at someone in particular, but for others they're just a nice way to smugly spread the love.

You sound a bit needy, and she seems disinterested.

Perhaps you're my SIL Barbie! Needy indeed. Thought it was nice to be nice. When all is said and done, I get it. I'd still rather be on my side of the fence than the other.

I just have simple expectations and would like to be treated by people in the same way I treat them.

This is the nub of the problem OP. You don't have simple expectations at all. You expect people to do what you're doing - remember dates, conversations, comments, friends of friends, who said what when - and then to always pick up on these. A lot of people don't have the time, investment, interest, energy to become so involved in someone else's life like this. They have better things to do.

And expecting other people to treat you the same way? Why? They don't want to. A close relative of mine is always wanting to do things for me. I hate it. I don't need or want her to tell me she's going to drive me here or there or book a ticket for this or arrange to go there. And then she gets all huffy because I say no.

Try to focus on and accept and accommodate what people are actually like and stop trying to make them behave as you think they ought to.

"Pastoral" is something I associate with a vicar/congregation or teacher/pupil relationship; I've never heard it applied to a friendship before. I guess Vinny was just stuck for the right word to describe what she does? Or maybe she is a vicar?!

I wouldn't have time for this kind of relationship with my SIL. You sound like a lovely SIL to have though and she probably feels constantly guilty for not being able to put the same amount of effort in, so maybe that is why she goes on about her problems so you don't think badly of her.
Allowing her for a few months to make the contact instead of you will give you the chance to see how much time she has to call you, then adapt.
Some people endlessly talk about themselves, are not interested in others and it is so boring. You could be spending that time doing something far more enjoyable!!
She is very lucky to have you op.

Some people are just life's takers. It's best not to spend too much time and energy on them, because they are often a bottomless well of self-obsession and needs, yet lack the capacity to offer any empathy or support in return. They tend to go around the world constructing victim narratives that allow them to be the heroines of their own straight-to-video sob story, which also absolve them of any responsibility of care or concern for others.

Oh and in answer to your actual question, no you definitely do not need to be friends!
A working relationship is fine.
If you get on well, great, but if not then a civilised distant relationship is just as good.

Some people are just life's takers. It's best not to spend too much time and energy on them, because they are often a bottomless well of self-obsession and needs, yet lack the capacity to offer any empathy or support in return

Or, if you're not paranoid and nasty, they are just perfectly normal people who don't actually want to be friends with you.

Op it’s good you’ve decided to back off. Be unavailable for her ranting and self obsessed calls too.

Unless you really get on, I find it’s best to treat extended family members like how you would treat work colleagues. Be perfectly polite and nice to them when you meet up, even go out to lunch at times but don’t involve yourself in their life and vice versa.

That's completely inappropriate cantucci.

To give you some personal background. I have spent 10 years lavishing time and effort on someone who is all one way. She told me recently I'm her only friend, and I believe her - but it's because she is utterly selfish. I have been with her through thick and thin. I've always put myself second, even when that's been really tough - I have literally held her hand through bloody and distressing procedures in hospital at a time when doing so was emotionally hard for me, I've taken time off work to care for her through breakups, I've spent hours on the phone at 2am talking her down from a screaming fit of drunken hysterics. I am the first person she calls when anything is wrong. She asks me to do her professional work for her, for free, which I've done for years. She has never, ever reciprocated in any way. She wasn't there when I had depression, she wasn't there when I had a horrible time with my job, she forgot my 40th birthday after demanding that I spent £300 on hers, she didn't come to my wedding party because she was on holiday, yet asked me to spend £1500 on her big day (which I did). I've just had enough. So yeah, as a person who isn't paranoid or nastyl, I have realised that I have other friends who are much, much nicer, who I don't come away from feeling depressed and drained but uplifted. And I'm exerising my right, as a self-determining adult, to spend my time with them instead.