AIBU re: DP, his ex and their DC

[achangeisasgoodasabreakdown]

DP has finally got proper visitation with his dc. After years in and out of courts, his ex has been caught lying multiple times, and the judge doesn't believe anything she says. This is all very positive for him and his dc, and I am genuinely happy for him. The only thing is that I am not to be there. He can bring them to our home as long as me and my dc leave for the whole time. When he first said this, I said ok, especially as his family have said that they don't want to be involved at this point (due to ex's behavior in their home), and that they have a full house of adults and children. And it's their house! They are completely entitled to feel how they feel, and to not want to be involved until his ex proves she is capable of rationality and being reasonable.

The problem is that I've spent all day preparing things, and now I'm pissed off and upset. I feel that I have been completely dismissed, disregarded, degraded, and disrespected by the courts, her, him, the solicitors,everybody. Not only me, but my relationship with him and my DC as well.

I would understand if we were talking of a relationship of a few months, but we've been together and living together for years. The cafcass officer said that my involvement would be invaluable for my DP, but seemingly nobody else agreed.

AIBU to say that my DC and I don't want to be shoved out of our home, and that until I can be present, I don't want visitation in my home?

OP, I have tried and tried and tried some more to think of a way you can make this work and it just isn't happening.

How the fuck can this have been passed through a court? And how the fuck does your DP think this is a triumph?

I'm sorry but it's your home and more importantly it's the home of your children. What the Hell do you plan to do with them for 3 hours every Tuesday? Not to mention being expected to vacate the house for most of the weekend? What if someone is sick? Or if someone just wants some downtime?

Sorry but no fucking way.

Nah, not having this. As s professional in the family courts, this just wouldn't be applied in any court order on the basis of the information you have provided. So either you aren't being transparent, or your DP is not being open and honest with you about how this agreement was reached at the hearing.

The Ex sounds really mental - would the DC be better off with their dad and you?

My thought exactly. Mother sounds like she will seriously damage those poor children.

There is no way in hell I'd be sacrificing my own childrens' well being for someone else's. I would not agree to this under any circumstances.

I would ditch the partner and be single forever before allowing my children to be tossed out of their home. The ex wife sounds mental, but it's even more mental to allow her to affect someone else's children in this way.

If she's this crazy, then it'd be in her childrens' best interests for their father to go for full custody.

It is a little dramatic to compare taking your loved children out for the day with abuse. I know plenty of parents who barely see Home on the weekend with rugby swimming birthday parties tennis dance and lunch at the grandparents. The op can certainly manage taking her children out sometimes without social services being needed , but not 3 times a week every week for 6 months.

Could your kids spend one of the weekend days at their dads for now, as you co parent so well? Then they’d still be in a home setting and able to relax.

I am a social worker so deal with a lot of family matters in Court. Some private.

It is very very hard to understand why decisions were made if you were not present. Sometimes I look at past decisions made and think WTF! Sometimes colleagues will ask me about what they think were crazy orders and I have to explain.

When you are there on the day, negotiating terms, there is some give and take. For the OP's DH, his focus, I should imagine was on contact, he might have rushed through the details while aiming for a high level.

OP, I would say stick it out as long as is feasiable. When it becomes an actual problem or your DC's are starting to get agitated by it then he will have to take them out. I wouldn't just push up against it for the sake of it, however annoying it is.

Good luck. You are doing the best for those children and so is DH. That sticks out immensely. They will look back and see how hard their dad fought for them. They will also see, in hindsight, how supportive you were.

Wow that is going get old fast.

Going by the ex's history this arrangement probably isn't going to last very long anyway. Especially when she finds he will be taking them to your home.

In the meantime would his family be more open to letting them visit for a couple of hours on the Saturday and Sunday rather than the whole time? I'm thinking 2hrs at yours, 2hrs at theirs, the last 2hrs traveling/out walking/sitting in McDonald's. Less on Sunday.

Also do you actually have to leave or can you hide upstairs? That sounds ridiculous I know, but as a previous poster said what if one of your children takes ill. You can't be expected to drag them out of the house.

OP, I would say stick it out as long as is feasiable. When it becomes an actual problem or your DC's are starting to get agitated by it then he will have to take them out. I wouldn't just push up against it for the sake of it, however annoying it is

The problem with starting an arrangement like this is that someone will suffer. If the OP proceeds, her dc get fed up and the situation is reviewed the DP's dc will feel 'pushed out of their father's home' even though it is OP's. I think a judge would look at a situation like that unfavourably as stability has been lost?

I fully support doing what it takes to maintain contact, but I feel the DP is making a mug out of the OP. He has a bit of a brass neck in thinking that this is ok.

Surely his ex is more likely to act up if their children are at your home rather than out and about. While you would have no problem calling the police...you can’t if you aren’t there. I don’t think she thought she could walk into your ILs home because she used to be family. Rather she feels she can be wherever her children are at all times. Hence her interrupting the group sessions at the contact centre and following them when they were with your OH and walking into your ILs. She may well decide she can just walk into your property too as her children are there.

I can understand why you want to support your partner in gaining and maintaining access but having them at yours is not the trouble free option it is being presented as.

You can limit the impact on your kids by going out for dinner after their activities midweek, seeing if ex will have them one weekend day and making plans for the other. It is still very unfair for them to be banned from their home for the duration. Rather than an air B and B for partner to see his kids, it might be an idea for you to book some cheap weekends away for tour children to look forward to.

I think his ex is more likely to retaliate due to them being at your house even if you aren’t present than if they are at s neutral location.

Your partner needs to speak to his solicitor and make some plans for next steps. Before that you need to make some decisions between you. What will happen if she turns up at your house during contact, what happens if one of your kids is sick, at what point will he be taking he kids out for part of his session, will certain events require a return to court and what access will he push for next time. She is attempting to alienate him from his children - will he be looking at action being taken against her and him going for residency? He then needs to talk to his solicitor and if he isn’t happy he needs to find a new one.

The more I think about this, the more I think that this is more a DP problem than a DP Batshi Ex problem.

Oh no denying that she is as bonkers as a bonkers thing, but the fact that he thinks it even remotely OK to suggest that you are forced to leave your own home with your kids to make his life easier.

HE has this problem, HE has the restriction on him that he can't have his kids and have you present. HE needs to resolve that, not you. IMVHO, it's his family that could help him more here to be honest, although I can see why they may have had a belly full of the drama and probably are right in their refusal to be dragged in again.

the issue is that the ex creates drama and everyone is dancing around that. I'd like to think that no court in the land would insist on you leaving your own home and take your kids. I think the judge assumed your DP had somewhere else to take them.

TBH, is this guy really worth it?

Even at quite a young age, I know my DD would have refused to go along with this batshit plan. She'd have refused to be cajoled out of her room all weekend because other children were arriving, especially for six hours on a Saturday and five hours on a Sunday.

And I wouldn't leave my home knowing that their mother might barge her way in.

So it wouldn't be happening.

It is definitely a DP problem. The ex is a red herring.

Hell would freeze over before I put my children so low on a list of priorities. You're putting a man before your own children. It's wrong.

I would tell him to move out and get his own home to facilitate contact with his children.

He's got a cushy number with you.

I appreciate everyone's responses. I spent yesterday talking with the solicitors, explaining that the situation they presented in court wasn't entirely accurate, and the position that what was actually the solicitors decisions in court are now leaving everyone in. Then speaking to the IL's about how we can make this work and move this forward in the best interests of all the children.

Solicitor said that it really was a case of all her other demands were refused, so the court agreed with this one, but the cafcass officer made it clear that they were not on board with this for the long term, and expect it to be changed with the enforcement order. Essentially, they said nobody believes she can follow the order, so it will be back in court much sooner, although if somehow she does manage to follow the order, DP can apply for a variation sooner. Either way, they don't think it will be six months. They thought three would be more likely.

They expect her to turn up after contact has ended, in which case I would be back at home to call the police. If she tries to just walk in when contact is happening, then he is to calmly ask her to leave, contact the solicitor, and go back to court.

I would be really uncomfortable with the idea of hiding in my own home and breaching the court order, especially as DP has never breached an order.

So after a long night of discussion, the compromise is Sat is my house, Sun is ILs and Tues (My DC are out on Tuesdays anyway) is my house. If my DC are sick, or I am, or I just want to stay at home, then DP will find an alternate. The ILs won't be in the house on Sundays. They have had enough of all her drama, but as well as that they haven't seen his DC in over two years, and we're all aware that it could be too much too soon if everybody is there. It's not that they don't want to see them, but they don't think it would be in the DC's best interest at this point.

As for residency, it's a difficult one. It's not that he, or even I, don't want residency, but we don't want to diminish the ex's importance and input as their mother. It's probably a bit naive, but we just want everyone to work together and move forward. It can be done, but only if everyone wants the same thing, and at the minute, they clearly don't.

And yes, while this is DP's problem, and his restrictions, , I feel that blended families are difficult anyway, and a lot of making them work is based on compromise. I feel that we have to act for all the DC, not just me acting for mine, or him acting for his. I think that we both kind of forgot that for a while, him because of the excitement, and me because of how I was feeling. While I know my feelings were perfectly valid, they are my feelings, and I think it might be a little selfish of me if I let them override everything else. When we spoke with my DC, they were completely on board with the idea. My DD said that it's not forever, it's for now, and it's going to make things easier for his DC to begin with, so we just have to go along with it.

So we're going to go along with it, and see how it goes. I also told the solicitor to make sure that in the next court, they do mention exactly what was done to ensure that the DC were comfortable and happy.

Airb'n'b until ex breaks the order or fucks up in some other way. Or, in the unlikely event she doesn't mess up, until your dp's parents and family see that she's behaving and allow him to use their place.

At this time of year, you might be able to negotiate a discount if you book for the next 3 months' worth of w/es in a block.

You can't do this to your children. At their ages they are on the point of needing to spend a lot of time in private, not least to snapchat with their mates, but also to do homework, amd all sorts. You need to be at home in order to work.

I want to add that if I was reading this post as you are, my advice would probably have been for him to move out and for the poster to end the relationship. But being in this situation, I am aware that it's not as simple as that.

I wouldn't be sending the message to my DC that they are more important then DP and his DC. Instead I'd be sending the message that when relationships get a bit difficult, and you need to reach a compromise, instead just leave. They think of DP as an extra dad, so I'd also be removing their sense of family, and their security of that relationship.

I'd also be sending the ex the message that if she puts any kind of pressure on him and our relationship, it will turn to ash. That she can still massively control his every aspect of his life after all this time.

And showing the courts that we aren't the stable family environment that the cafcass officer reported we were.

The whole thing makes complete sense to me! How old are the children and how much contact has he had in their lives?

It seems that they are still quite young and he hasn't had much contact with them for at least the last two years? If so, the judge would have considered that the priority was for him to rebuild his relationship with them and for that, not to be distracted by other people. It makes sense as indeed, it might be hard enough to get these kids to adjust/re-adjust to him being their dad. It also makes sense that ideally, it would be good that some of the contact takes place at yours if this is going to become the place where ideally, they will come to be during future visitation and where they will finally get to meet you and your children. At least when they do so, it will be in an environment they have become familiar with.

The priority of the court will be to re-establish a child/father relationship, not for them to adapt to forming part of a new family, hence disregarding your views. Your OH has probably be taken on by the whole thing, thinking that there might a light at the end of the tunnel if he follows exactly what he's been told to do. He sees it that it is just a case of holding on just a bit longer and then you can indeed start being a family. He probably think that it will only be 3 months and that might feel like a short time to him in the scale of his fight for his parental rights.

I do think you are doing an amazing thing as a partner to go along and support this and the compromise you've reached seems the best in these circumstances. You do need to make sure though that your kids see it as being part of something that hopefully will be good for everyone, not as a punishment because really, the whole thing is not fair on them (nor you), so maybe you could plan a small trip with them at some stage as something they get to look forward to?

I feel that blended families are difficult anyway, and a lot of making them work is based on compromise.

OP this is where I disagree. Children should not have to 'compromise' in order to facilitate their parent's complicated love life. Especially when it involves leaving their home.

So you and your children leave your home on Saturdays.

Your in-laws and their 'full house of adults and children' [from your OP] do the same on a Sunday.

You're out again Tuesday evenings even if you or one of your DC is unwell.

I'm still not sure what the intended outcome of all this is supposed to be, tbh, in terms of the children's welfare in all these houses.

Where is you ds supposed to do his homework on a Saturday?

Crikey there is no way on earth I'd happily be taking myself and my children out all day on a Saturday, every Saturday for potentially 6 months.

Do your dc spend any weekends with their father? Because I'd be bracing yourself for them announcing they arw off to their dad's every weekend, Cus frankly traipsing around shops, going to the cinema, hanging around waiting to be allowed back to their own home will wear thin very very quickly.

Not to mention the cost of entertaining two teens all day on a Saturday, every Saturday.

And you OP... Wtf are you going to do all day on Saturday? That is my time at home to do gardening, cleaning, ironing, have down time with my children, relaxing etc.

Really cannot get my head round this at all.

Also I strongly believe that blended families are just that... A family... And your dsc are going to be part of a family... You should all be together doing normal family stuff.

What happens at end of six months if your suddenly allowed back in your house on Saturdays... You may find dsc see it as their house, and resent your dc being there...

Solicitor said that it really was a case of all her other demands were refused, so the court agreed with this one, but the cafcass officer made it clear that they were not on board with this for the long term, and expect it to be changed with the enforcement order. Essentially, they said nobody believes she can follow the order, so it will be back in court much sooner, although if somehow she does manage to follow the order, DP can apply for a variation sooner. Either way, they don't think it will be six months. They thought three would be more likely

Your solicitor is incompetent.
This just doesn’t happen with such a serious measure unless something has gone very wrong.

If you were saying contact time was shifted by a day or time them yep or something really minor I could see it. But this is a really serious measure for a court to take, like really serious. And that’s based on over 20 years of experance with family law.

This is your original question, OP: AIBU to say that my DC and I don't want to be shoved out of our home, and that until I can be present, I don't want visitation in my home?

Your solicitor isn't listening to you. Your DP isn't listening to you. (Also in your opening post.)

Posters on here ARE listening to you - but you've shifted position now.

If me or DC are unwell, DP will have to find an alternate.

As for what we'll do, they'll be having sleepovers with friends, we'll be visiting friends and family (especially the ones I've been talking about visiting for the last year and never seemed to get around to it), as well as cinema trips etc.

In theory, My DS should have all his homework done by Sat. Doesn't always work, but it's something we put in place to help him manage his time, especially moving forward for big school.

NeedsASock Contact has been doubled in time, and does not have her previous restrictions, such as no involvement from anyone else at all including his family, and he was not allowed to drive them anywhere, and could only stay at the drop off point. The solicitor agreed to her demand that I would not be present, for now. This has been years in several courts as she has done everything she possibly could to draw this out, including moving out of the jurisdiction twice, scheduling appointments on court days, changing solicitors repeatedly -new solicitor needs time to get up to speed) and twice simply stopping all contact for 6 months or more at a time, which meant contact had to be re-established slowly. Again.

theredjellybean I see your point about that they might see it as their house and resent us for being there. Maybe the day at his family's house will help, or we could think of some way of showing his DC that my DC and I will at some point be there at the same time as them? A photo album, maybe? I'm completely open to suggestions here. This is not an area I've ever had to navigate before. Maybe we could leave them a gift or something, like with a new baby?

Obviously, this is all completely unfeasible as a long term option, but I think we just need to make it work in the short term with the view to moving things forward.

LineysRunt I still feel how I felt at the beginning - hurt, disrespected, dismissed- but I spent a long time discussing this with DP, his family, my DC and the solicitors. I haven't shifted position, I've compromised. His family have compromised. My own DC actually think it's a good idea, and that we need to go along with it. They don't feel the same way as I do, so I need to put my feelings aside in the best interest of his DC, DP, and even my DC, who see it as a move forward.