AIBU re: DP, his ex and their DC

[achangeisasgoodasabreakdown]

DP has finally got proper visitation with his dc. After years in and out of courts, his ex has been caught lying multiple times, and the judge doesn't believe anything she says. This is all very positive for him and his dc, and I am genuinely happy for him. The only thing is that I am not to be there. He can bring them to our home as long as me and my dc leave for the whole time. When he first said this, I said ok, especially as his family have said that they don't want to be involved at this point (due to ex's behavior in their home), and that they have a full house of adults and children. And it's their house! They are completely entitled to feel how they feel, and to not want to be involved until his ex proves she is capable of rationality and being reasonable.

The problem is that I've spent all day preparing things, and now I'm pissed off and upset. I feel that I have been completely dismissed, disregarded, degraded, and disrespected by the courts, her, him, the solicitors,everybody. Not only me, but my relationship with him and my DC as well.

I would understand if we were talking of a relationship of a few months, but we've been together and living together for years. The cafcass officer said that my involvement would be invaluable for my DP, but seemingly nobody else agreed.

AIBU to say that my DC and I don't want to be shoved out of our home, and that until I can be present, I don't want visitation in my home?

Oh god @achangeisasgoodasabreakdown your relationship sounds identical to mine.

Bear with me whilst I google hitmen (joke) and sob into a pillow.

It's fucking Sod's law. The "one" couldn't just be simple right?

Graphista I spoke with the solicitor myself and I suggested that they go to a play area, the cinema, etc the solicitor said it wasn't a good idea. Basically because the solicitor doesn't want it to seem like he was setting the ex up to fail by giving her the temptation to follow him, or have someone follow him. I don't believe she'll stick to this part of the order no matter where he goes, but it is absolutely nothing to do with cost. Even if it was, there's always things to do that don't cost anything.

The solicitor said that the ex was very hostile towards any increase in contact, and that she was allowed to dictate that I not be there because literally everything else she demanded was refused. The solicitor does think that this will be removed at the 6 month review.

I haven't met his DC. I said that if I were her I would want to know that it was happening, not that she should be asked, but that she should be aware. Funnily enough, they were always sick. I have said that I would be willing to meet with her in public, before meeting the DC if she would have preferred that. Obviously I do have experience with children, and my previous job was as a classroom assistant.

derangedmermaid Apparently not, but he wouldn't be him, and I mightn't want him if he wasn't.

@achangeisasgoodasabreakdown yeah, I know, I end up saying that too.

She's just such a weight around our necks. She has literally told his children that they are not allowed to have fun at my house, should never say please and thank you around us, and that my children can never be their friends.
They've been introduced to numerous sexual partners, some within days of each other, they have even both been told they cannot be friends with anyone who hasn't got white skin.

She's fucking insane and there's nothing DP can do because he's a man and she's a woman.

Anyway. I love him and I'll let him go be an amazing dad. 3 years of dreaming of the future can just stay as pretty little what ifs.

Basically because the solicitor doesn't want it to seem like he was setting the ex up to fail by giving her the temptation to follow him,

So the solution is for your children to vacate their home 3x per week? No, that’s ludicrous.

Honestly, your solicitor sounds a bit shit. Your DP is not responsible for not ‘tempting’ her.

He’s only got the kids for a few hours each time. He can take them out for the 2 short sessions and have them at yours for 6 hours on the Sat.

I hope there's an equivalent order that says she's never allowed boyfriends/partners in the house with the kids?

derangedmermaid Sometimes I think I could talk to her, let her know that I don't want to be their mother, that's her job, and I have my own DC to mother. My role is to support him, the DC and even her through childhood and beyond, that I'll never blindly take his side, If I think she's right.I'll tell him (at home on our own, never in front of her), that all I want is for them to co-parent their DC, but that I'll be there as a safety net for support, or to help in emergencies, whatever's needed. Then I remember that she's crazy and wouldn't listen anyway.

OP, a few things - first, my sympathy.

You say it's your house but you try to treat it as also his. Who pays the rent/mortgage and bills? If it's equal, isn't it his too, but if not then he can have somewhere else private for contact?

Your DS has ADD and ASD. Why hasn't your DP considered the upheaval on your DCs for them not being allowed in their house for six months' of Saturdays, Sundays and Tues afternoons? Esp if it's your house not his house?

The ex sounds like she is OTT (nice way of putting it, I know), you sound very supportive, but why isn't anyone thinking about your DCs in any of this? You say your DP is fantastic and 'The One', but how can he be if doesn't care at all about what this will do to your two DCs? Won't they come to resent him and that will cause relationship/family strain?

This whole thing will erode your current set up and wouldn't your DP be better off finding somewhere else for contact or not stopping the following so ex is shown up in court for what she's doing? How old are his DCs, how much longer til it doesn't have to go through ex/court?

You need to talk to your partner and come up with a plan together to cover the next 6 months.

He needs to compromise and find at least one or two alternative places to take DC's where they can be safe and spend time with him. He cannot expect you and your DCs to just suck it up. He also needs to have plans for the times when (for whatever reason - illness, homework commitments etc.) you or your DCs need to be at home at the weekend.

So maybe for the first couple of weeks, to get things rolling, all visits happen at your house and you take your DC out.
After that, he starts having to compromise. Maybe you take your DCs out once a week. Perhaps his relatives can host the short weekday sessions, if things have been going smoothly? On the third day he finds somewhere else to go - at least for a couple of hours e.g. he has the house on the Saturday morning while you do the supermarket shop/have a haircut/run other errands, then you come home and he takes his children out for a couple of hours (would it be worth him getting family membership to a private swimming pool or similar where ex could not follow him?)

@achangeisasgoodasabreakdown yep pretty much.

Once DP and I realised we were very serious about each other I suggested her and I meet for a coffee seeing as I would be a part of her children's lives.

She rewarded that by repeatedly calling my mobile all hours of the night for about six weeks from an unknown number (it was on silent so it didn't ever wake me up, but still, 20-60 odd calls at 3am..?) and then a fake harassment report to the police stating DP was drunk driving past the house making threats.
Luckily DP was Home with me and had had a twenty minute chat with next door at the time she reported him. Her solicitor wrote a weak ass letter about it, DPs solicitors letter back was a masterpiece of the Dummies Guide to Perjury

You would think she would just focus on not fucking up her children really.

I do feel for your OP, it sounds like there is a lot of vindictiveness on ex's side.

I can understand why you don't want to leave your house for long periods to allow contact. BUT, if you've never met his DC and they have had limited/no contact with their father for a while, I really can see the point of needing to re-establish the relationship with their father before introducing a new step-mum and step-siblings. I don't think it's easy to put a time limit on how long that would be as it depends on the situation, the children's ages and how they are coping with everything that is going on. I think you need to be mindful of that, despite your keenness to involve his DC in your family.

I think for a short period it may be better for him to rent somewhere, if this can be afforded, to allow contact. Once things have settled down then he can move back in. Other options don't seem workable- taking them out for a few hours is doable but taking them out all weekend is probably not (which is also true for you and your DC). If there isn't anywhere else and he can't take them to family I'm not sure what other options your DP has as it is court ordered. If he want to see his children he is going to have to comply- or could he go back to court and challenge it?

He needs to take your and your DC's needs into account. I think you need to be wary of making him feel he has to choose between you and his children. Very tricky all round.

I have to disagree with the solicitor about the possibility of the Ex following, how is it setting her up to fail? If she can’t adhere to a condition of the order, that’s not your DP’s problem. I would negotiate with your DP about the amount of contact in your home, say half but I can understand his excitement.

In the end, as shitty and as unfair as this is, this is the price for being with this man. There is always going to be drama with his Ex, it’s part of your DP’s package and after four years together, he’s taken your continued support for granted. I think, it’s important that your talk to your DP about red lines and where yours are. I can understand why you agreed initially with the proposal but upon reflection, it isn’t fair on your children and as much as you want to support your DP, it can not be at their expense. What are the chances that if he were allowed to have access in your home with you present, that his Ex would invent lies that would directly impact you and your children?

If I were him I’d let his Ex know, that you and your home are off limits to her shit and if she continues, he will be forced to move out which would increase his expenses which in turn would impact the level of maintenance. If there are never any consequences for her behaviour then there isn’t any deterrent.

I personally, would never move in with someone with this amount of baggage, especially if they had kids.

So, renegotiate and let your DP know where your ref lines are because he will keep pushing in order to satisfy his wants and you will become increasingly resentful of the ‘give an inch, take a mile’ dynamic between you.

Isetan

if OPs DP allowed contact with op and her children present then he will have breached the court order. I have no idea what the fall out from that would be, but I don't think disregarding the order is a good idea. Either that or they would have to tell the DC to conceal the fact they have been with OP and her children, which would be a shitty thing to do to them.

OP's DP either needs to find a way to comply with the order or go back to court and challenge it.

I meant renegotiate the amount of time she would be absent from her home because he would conduct a portion of the access outside of it. In no way would I suggest he breach the order. The more the OP gives, the more the DP feels he can take.

The order states that she shouldn’t be present at contact, not that contact must take place in her home.

Yes, the OP’s DH cannot bring the children around the OP.

He has zero responsibility if his Ex follows him while he’s with the children, and I’m astonished that his solicitor suggested otherwise.

I’d just walk away from that man. In hindsight I should’ve. Like you I’ve also been through this with my DH, fought in court for access for years. In the end, the judge granted DH 3 weeks per year because DH was moving out of the country. The move was the best thing that happened to us though as it allowed us to be happy and to create our own family. Had we still stayed we might not have been allowed access without paying a hefty sum (ex equals children’s right to DH paying, to her they are correlated). Even if we coughed up huge amounts to satisfy her requests she would still have made it a fuss with contact (they are sick, they have an important rehearsal during the weekend, they are not happy staying overnight with us, they miss their mum etc etc we heard them all).. anything to make us bend backwards to accommodate. But strangely when she needed to go on a girly trip they’d be happy to spend the entire week with us. Vile woman. She’d also tell the DS how bad their father is, that although their stepmum (me) is nice to them (I always tried to be supportive of them and involved in their games n play) she told them I’m a stranger etc etc. a real bond could never ensue.

In hindsight, I would’ve been better off leaving to create a family with a man with less complications and more straightforward family life. Don’t think that’s the price you should pay to be with him. I’d happily swap him and not pay, but years ago I was stupid and naive. Don’t make the same mistake I did. In the end, no one will thank you.

In hindsight, I would’ve been better off leaving to create a family with a man with less complications and more straightforward family life. Don’t think that’s the price you should pay to be with him. I’d happily swap him and not pay, but years ago I was stupid and naive. Don’t make the same mistake I did. In the end, no one will thank you.*

I hate that I've found myself nodding along to this.

It's great that you are supporting him op but agreeing to this will be detrimental to your own dcs. This is actually not your problem and your priority should be your own children. IF she harasss or follows him he needs to take legal action, not hide away in your house.

When he first said this, I said ok, especially as his family have said that they don't want to be involved at this point (due to ex's behavior in their home), and that they have a full house of adults and children. And it's their house! They are completely entitled to feel how they feel, and to not want to be involved until his ex proves she is capable of rationality and being reasonable.

So why aren't you doing the same? This is worrying because it sounds like they've put up with all sorts of shit and they've now had enough. What consequence was there for her when she did whatever it was? Did your dp ever take steps to protect them from her? Because these kids are family and that's quite an extreme reaction from them I think. Something serious must have happened.

but I have considered giving up our room so that each child could have a room of their own)

This is just daft. You would give your bedroom up so a non related child can have their own room on the odd overnight? You are being a martyr here op. None of this is your responsibility. There are plenty of fun days out to be had and the solicitor is simply giving his opinion. Your dp does not have to act on it but is choosing to.

I think your dp is being very selfish in expecting you to leave your own home and potentially exposing your kids to her behaviour.

He has zero responsibility if his Ex follows him while he’s with the children, and I’m astonished that his solicitor suggested otherwise.

I agree but there appears to be a mindset that the Ex can’t control herself, which of course, encourages a dynamic where she doesn’t have to control her behaviour. Personally, I would be happy for the Ex to breach that part of the order which would hopefully give the opportunity to revisit the OP’s presence at access part.

I really couldn’t be bothered to tread on eggshells in order to protect someone else’s poor boundaries. I don’t know wether the Op’s DP can’t or just doesn’t want to see, the burden that placating his Ex is placing on the OP but it cannot go on indefinitely. His romanising of their ‘honeymoon’ period, speaks volumes, he doesn’t quite appreciate the degree of selflessness the OP has shown because he expects it.

OP you can’t keep ‘going along’ with things, the line between being supportive and being a doormat isn’t as thin as people think it is.

I don’t think the DP is a bad person, I can not imagine what it must feel like to have to go through all this shit just to see my own children. However, not everyone has to choose the level of disempowerment that he’s accepted because they have different priorities. Just because the DP is prioritising a relationship with his kids above the needs of the OP and her children, doesn’t mean she has to.

Oh adding to what she’s done to us : moved away from our original location (London) claiming she really needed the move. We supported the move as long as we got to see the kids every weekend (that’s before lawyers were involved), once moved she claimed the kids were busy and they don’t need us. Anyhow, it’s a short domestic flight away (let’s say Edinburgh), she’d say come weekend of 12 May and we would be booking the earliest flight let her know, got there, rented a car to drive to their house only to find they have left the house. Then when asked she’d reply “oh i took them swimming (or shit like that) you’ll have to wait in a nearby pub”. They’ll return after lunch. Then we get half of saturday and she’d demand them back Sunday at 10am because they will see their friends (school friends that they see all week long but to her they are more important than seeing their father). If we were late to the 10am set up. Next time, she’d keep them at home while we waited outside and tell the kids we had not bothered to be on time (she made us wait 3hrs while the kids were at home playing)) .... she’d pull shit like that only to spite us knowing that she “can” and DH would still not walk away. She constantly tested his love for them and if he once budge she’d let him know what a shit father he is in a long two pages long email. He went into a deep depression to suicidal, and was overly stressed. Then a job opportunity came up to move abroad and we did. Best thing we ever did. She then wrote an email and said good fathers don’t move away from their kids. She must be joking, she moved away with the kids then played with the access, then claimed he’s the shit father. She shouldn’t suffer all those years just because he happens to be a father. We went through a lot. Sometimes to achieve happiness is to distant yourself from evil.
I can see what effect this has had on DH, he withdraws from those older kids now to avoid dealing with their mother. He sees them 2 weeks per year as per court order. The other 1 week is supposed to be ad hoc and by goodwill. Oh and the evil mother would set the summer dates 10-24 June , one day before DH’s birthday just so they can never be with him on his birthday.

Just walk away now or move countries like we did! It will never end, not even when they are 18 as she’ll start sending email demands on university and then she’ll be nasty during weddings, childbirths etc etc ...Good luck.

I’m not the OW by the way, they divorced two years before we met.

It seems to me that unless both parents are supportive of on going contact it's not going to happen, despite various orders and mounting legal fees. I know several men who have had no choice but to walk away after years of court battles.

And even if he does get contact the children in these scenarios are often poisened or punished for enjoying time with that parent. I think it's very very unlikely that she's ever going to be supportive about contact so you're going to have years of this. You absolutely cannot sacrifice your own dcs to this.