Women/ girls taking full responsibility children

[thereisalightanditnevergoes]

Just lying here and suddenly feeling very cross so need to vent sorry guys. Wondering if anyone else feels the same.

I got pregnant at 17 with my first child. I finished my first year of college then missed a year to look after the baby until he went to nursery and I then completed my second year of College (sixth form) The father of my child, on the other hand who was the year above me so had finished his college education as our son was born, moved 100 miles away to his first choice uni.

He'd come back every other weekend to "help out" but eventually this got less and less as he met a new bird at uni and sacked me and DC off (until a few years later this all got resolved and he now has a good relationship with DC but that's not the point atm)

My point being how Fucking unfair. I can't believe I didn't make more of a fuss at the time. How dare he move that far away when I had to sacrifice so much and it was simply expected. Surely we should of both took a year out and both looked after the baby for the first year?? I know a few other girls who have had similar situations and I just think it's disgraceful most boys/ men take no responsibility and they aren't expected to. sorry. Rant over. I don't think I'm actually being unreasonable but would like other people's opinions on this.

Exactly crazy

In the past unmarried pregnant girls either married the father or gave up their babies! Hideous choices really but that’s how it was.

Now young girls have babies and rightfully the state helps, not much, but the lads, no longer have the apprenticeships, manual jobs, societal norms and expectations of providing for their children so it’s easy to impregnate and fuck off.

What’s the answer? Make single parenthood harder and hurt the child? Chase absent fathers? Or raise aspirations and choices?

Oh don’t be dramatic.

As I said upthread, we need UBI and affordable childcare. Because the idea of forcing these useless, lazy, selfish sperm donors into marriage didn't work. Women should not have to be tied to inadequate men for their survival and that of their children.

And remember that a lot of feckless men won't use contraception because they 'don't like it' or are obsessed with impregnating women as proof of the mightiness of their dicks.Predatory men who groom young women for sex and impregnate them while they are already married and have kids of their own are also an issue.

In terms of sex education, it would be useful to remind people that PIV is not the only option (and a lot of women find it the least enjoyable type of sexual activity, anyway).

@DonnyAndVladSittingInATree

But surely under that idea the woman accepted the option of pregnancy etc when she had the unprotected sex?

Society/law/Govt says that women have the final say over their bodies and therefore we make that choice whether to keep a baby or not. Men/boys have no such say over this stage - which is right. Therefore men/boys will walk away if it isn’t what they want. If men carried babies we would ensure that men had the last word.

If you are going to have sex then you have to be prepared that you might end up pregnant. The decision to keep the baby is yours too. Tough but biology dictates that.

The last thing we would want is men forcing women to keep babies that the woman does not want so the law etc shouldn’t be changed.

'What’s the answer? Make single parenthood harder and hurt the child? Chase absent fathers? Or raise aspirations and choices?'

Value parenthood highly as a society so that those having children have the support they need to do a good job of it no matter what their circumstances?

Children growing up in chaos and poverty is the source of a massive proportion of society's problems. If all babies were valued and given equal opportunities then we would go an enormous way to making society better as a whole.

Oh for god sake, I hate this shit of the poor poor menz get no say in an abortion and therefore we can't blame the poor little lambs for abandoning their children. It's just not fair to them to expect them to take any responsibility for their actions. Meanwhile those feckless single mums who are left to pick up the pieces are an utter disgrace to society...

Honestly, why do women feel the need to defend men like this? Men as a class DO NOT support women. They just don't. Look at every right we've had to fight for, and continue to fight for. Even the little things like having decent roles for women in films, or to have at least one woman on comedy panel shows, we have to fight every single step.

Yet dispite this total lack of support from men, we continue to support them, make excuses for them, and chuck other women under the bus.

If a man walks away from his kids like this, he should find himself in court for neglect, just as if a woman casually walked away from her child without a second thought for its care. If they do not financially support, again, there should be a case for neglect. But of course, the lawmakers in charge would never do this, because it would be so unfair on poor men to expect THEM to make some of the sacrifices, to expect them to take responsibility....

I have 2 dds aged 17/18 who would terminate an unwanted pregnancy in a heart beat, as would I, my dds have no desire to cut short their lif choices at this age. They are responsibly in their contraception but if an accident occurred then thankfully they have the choice

So you think, until reality hits that they're actually pregnant and unintentionally form attachment to the pregnancy.

Not always, but it happens to the best of us who say "Children? Definitely not"

LeCrois most men though arnt stupid and lazy.

Reinamated

Agree we need total access to abortion on demand and better child care. Absolutlry.

Older men grooming young women for sex? If you mean underage girls that’s a crime and the full force of the law should be used. And yes we all know it isn’t at the moment but it bloody should.

I take issue with you saying men won’t use contraception. Agree some won’t but unless a girl/women is raped then she has equal responsibility to refuse to engage.

Don’t like infantilising women.,I choose not to have sex without condoms at 15. Girls need to be brought up to be strong and not to take this shit.

@LeCroissant Most children get the same opportunities in regards to education (apart from those who can afford to pay for private schooling.) It's the families that children are born into that disadvantage them. You can throw money at people all you like but if people don't value an education or having aspirations then these values will be passed down to their children.

polly

Maybe but my dds know the reality of having children. I have never sugar coated parenthood and they have huge ambitions that don’t include babies at 17. Obviously it would be their choice but I would feel failed as a parent if they choose to continue a pregnancy at 17.

Most women who have terminations feel nothing but utter relief had bloody glad they live in a civilised society that guards their rights.

Crazy sadly I totally agree

Exactly. State education is free. Children who fall through the cracks usually do so because of their home life.

@Heartoffire

Why would you feel like you failed as a parent if your daughters had a baby at 17?
Raising a child is a lot harder than doing a degree. Having a child at 16 was the best thing I've ever done.

In terms of sex education, it would be useful to remind people that PIV is not the only option (and a lot of women find it the least enjoyable type of sexual activity, anyway).

It should also be emphasised that, unless raped, the girl/woman has a choice as to who to have any form of sex with. Perhaps they should choose more wisely and not hop into bed with boys/men who are likely to walk away - the signs are usually there!

@Heartoffire

I take issue with you saying men won’t use contraception. Agree some won’t but unless a girl/women is raped then she has equal responsibility to refuse to engage.

Because nobody has ever lied about using contraception, and every teenage girl has been fortunate enough to receive comprehensive sex education and can't be tricked into thinking a condom has been used when it hasn't.

Motherfiver not all pregnancy is a result of unprotected sex.

@Lethaldrizzle

Can you explain that?
Are you referring to rape?

I'm not sure what your point is crazy. Are you saying no help should be given to anybody struggling to bring up kids?

Tricked into thinking he’s wearing a condom is clearly different to refusing to wear one and both parties agreeing to go ahead anyway.

You can’t compare the two.

mother I am glad it worked for you and I have 5 kids myself and stared at 20 so young too.

However my girls want to get degrees, travel, build careers and live totally care free lives for the fiorseeabke future. My ds is married with s child and he’s 26 and happy. so obviously choices

You can’t deny that quite rightly once you have a child you are then never putting yourself first again ever really or at least for 18 years and to to be doing that responsible stuff as a teenager would be to me a sad thing.

@LeCroissant No, I'm saying that financial help shouldn't be the only type of help given to these families. Money doesn't miraculously change attitudes and values. Work needs to be done managing confidence and aspirations.

mirime agree the teaching of contraception use in this country isn’t good.

Both taking a year out to look after the baby seems like almost a pipe-dream. I mean, most people couldn't dream of both affording a year out to look after their child

True that.

I dont know any mid thirties couples who could afford for both of them to take a year out and sit caring for a baby.

Would both of you be on benefits on your gap year or living off your parents?

Well done to you, you seem very brave.
Men can get away with it. Women can't and end up paying full price. Shagging is much riskier for women.

Some men may indeed pretend to use a condom, just as some women pretend to be on the pill, or pretend to be taking it properly when they aren't.

At least condoms are visible to the naked eye (and in my experience, touch and smell too).