Should toddlers be running round the pub screaming on a Friday night?

[Notevilstepmother]

I’m sorry to be mean, I love kids generally, but if I go to the pub on a Friday night and it’s not one of those pubs with a soft play and a children’s menu I don’t really want to have people allowing their children to run round and scream at the top of their voices. I was trying to have a conversation with a friend and someone encouraged their children to run around our table, nowhere near where they were sitting. One of them was only 18 months old and was screeching with excitement which I get, and the others were maybe 3 and 5 and were under the bar staffs feet and nearly tripped them up a few times.

I’m not necessarily saying ban children, but maybe after 7 or something, or have them sit down and not run around. Not everyone wants other people’s kids being noisy when they are having an adult night out. AIBU?

Onetwothree2018, it seems parents can't win with you! The wandering around would happen whilst waiting for the food! That's a wait of over half an hour sometimes, a very long time for an active 2 or 3 year old to sit still. I'm grateful that our DDs can sit and colour now, so much easier!

And yes, I know you'll say, just stay at home, but what about family events that you're invited to, like a 70th birthday meal for Grandma for example?

Yes Lizzie it is difficult for two year olds to sit and wait for a food order which is really why it's best to stick to fast food restaurants or places with soft play areas when you have children that age. If people must visit a 'proper' restaurant and their dcs need to go for a wander, their parents should walk around with them. There is no excuse to leave a child to wander unsupervised.

I agree about supervision, Miss Eliza, one of us used to take our DDs outside if they became restless. I was replying to onetwothree saying that she finds it even more annoying when parents walk around with their little ones than if they let them run around unsupervised??

Oh yes Lizzie I saw that comment after I posted. I guess you can't please all the people all the time! Interesting point you made about when children are invited to grandma's 70th. When my boys were little, I would only take them to the soft play type of restaurant but my ILs love to eat out and would always insist on going to places unsuitable for small dcs. As you said two and three year olds don't want to wait half an hour for their food. I would spend most of the time walking a toddler around or sitting out in a garden waiting for the food. I was doing my best to make sure the kids didn't disturb other people. It was bloody miserable so I've got a lot of sympathy for parents in that situation.
However I think the real point of this thread is those parents who think it's ok for their darlings to run around while they eat and drink. I think it's getting worse and worse. Dh and I were in a Costa in New Year's Day and there was a family of five sitting playing a board game. Two of the kids were getting really worked up and it was becoming extremely loud. One boy started hitting his mother. Their parents did nothing to tell them to be quiet. Why on earth do they think people trying to have a coffee and a chat would want to listen to their kids fighting? And when I glared, they glared back! Honestly these days there are so many entitled parents raising entitled children. God help us.

Lizzie48 I find both scenarios annoying. Parading your child around my table whilst i’m trying to relax and eat is really really annoying and bad manners.

Curiously I haven't seen a lot of that. I suppose I need to get out more, or shall we say, go to more places that aren't family friendly. When I'm watching our DDs I don't worry much about what other children are doing.

I personally much prefer to go out childfree in the evening, if it's not a family friendly place. It's nice then to sit down, drink a glass of wine and look at the menu in peace. I like going with my DH, or with a friend, leaving my DH at home with the DDs.

Tbh, I would feel sorry for the family in your situation. DD1 lashes out at me, and at DD2, it's horrible and not easy to stop. (They're adopted and she has Attachment Disorder.) Thankfully, it doesn't happen when we're out for a meal, or hasn't yet. But they should have left in those circumstances, absolutely what I would have done.

I'm sure we disturb people sometimes. But IMO it's more important to get children used to dining out, than to worry other diners might not like children
And if your kids got a hot coffee or food spilt on them because they knocked into someone would you take the blame yourself???

That wouldn't bother me at all, onetwothree. I think you're being very precious and obviously would rather children weren't there all.

Sometimes it's not our choice, like for a celebration meal we've been invited to. What exactly do you expect the parents to do, if their toddler won't sit still, would you rather the toddler threw a tantrum because they were being made to sit still?? Sometimes it's not possible to go outside either.

Believe me, sometimes the parents would rather be anywhere else!!

if she was noisy or restless we took her outside so she didn’t disturb other people

We do in summer. Not when it's dark/cold/wet. We always retrieve her when she runs off, but she's fast and can cover quite a distance in a few seconds!

I agree kids shouldn't be left to run around or screech in pubs. But also feel it's unrealistic to expect a young child to sit in silence, unless you have a very placid child or frighten them into submission. Sometimes people glare at DD because she's laughing too loudly or jumping up and down next to our table!

It's only in the U.K. I've encountered this 'seen and not heard' attitude. In many countries it's the norm for children to dine out late in family groups, nobody expects them to play silently. A toddler running away shrieking gets indulgent smiles. Waiters make a fuss of children and bring them snacks, pick up a grumpy baby for a cuddle etc.

It makes me sad when parents of small children feel they must stay closeted away from society.

Typical parentitlement. If your child can't behave, don't bring them.
There is no excuse these days are so many places are child friendly with soft play and other stuff, there is no need for them to be in proper grown up pubs

Sometimes we like to eat nice food, with extended family/friends, in a relaxing environment. Do you feel this should be denied to parents of toddlers?

I agree there's a risk of bumping into someone carrying food/drinks, but it's a risk you manage by retrieving them and teaching them. She's a bit big for a highchair. I've never seen a waiter spill something on a child, even in softplay and child friendly cafes where herds of toddlers are charging around. People generally look out for hazards when they're carrying things!

I’m not a child hater! I think it’s wonderful that people take children out, it teaches them good manners and how to behave in public. I see plenty of lovely families with children sitting at the table enjoying their meal. Yes sometimes they cry or make a bit of noise (but so do I when I drink too much). I have a specific issue with people teaching their child that it’s ok to run around or walk around people when they are trying to eat.

Zoop, I've never seen a waiter in a softplay area. You must go to some really posh ones!

Sometimes I think you just have to concede that some places are not for toddlers and go somewhere else until children are old enough to sit and chat.

I agree, ZooTheCat, the difficulty comes when you're invited out to a celebration at a restaurant and Grandma wants your DCs to come too. There are some places where I wouldn't have thought of taking my DDs to when they were toddlers.

It's nice being able to expect better behaviour from my DDs now.

I agree there's a risk of bumping into someone carrying food/drinks, but it's a risk you manage by retrieving them and teaching them

No it's a risk you manage by not letting them run around in the first place!

Go somewhere else until children are old enough to sit and chat Aah common sense at last! However it's wasted on the entitled parents on this thread.
Ironically as my dcs have grown up and are capable of sustaining a bit of chat at the table, dh and I have taken them out to a few restaurants in the evening, only to be seated next to unruly families! Last time the grown up conversations was drowned out by the noisy children at the next table, a couple of whom are the same feral children who my dd has to endure at school. A particular highlight of the evening was the two boys running from the toilets shouting 'Tyler has flooded the bathroom'. The dad replied 'what the fuck did you do that for?' but made no effort to check it or inform the staff. My dh confirmed the little shits indeed had flooded it and told the staff. This quite an expensive local steakhouse btw.

We've taken our children BBTE (before bedtime era) to pubs (all propercpubtry pubs with restaurants) quite late (think after ten leave time) but we would never have allowed them to make a instance of themselves. Toddler around with hand holding supervision where they weren't bothering anyone? Sure. Running around and screaming? Of course not. They would have been taken outside/home.

Re. OP:
Not in a Friday night or any other night - or day. What are children doing in a pub anyway?

sigh

...on a Friday night...

Running around isn't ok in any cafe or restaurant and can be stopped. Sometimes noise can't be helped.

Children shouldn't be running around under the staff members feet anywhere as it's incredibly dangerous to not only the kids but the staff.
I also don't think children that young should be in a pub after 7pm anyway. How can people think it's ok for kids to have to listen to adult chat and why should adults in a pub have to watch what they say when they come out in the evening to socialise. It's not fair on us who have paid for a baby sitter and are trying to enjoy a rare night out. I went 10 years with no social life because I have dc and didn't wish to inflict them on others. Why people think that's ok nowadays I don't know.
Pubs need to go back to being places for adults and older teens!

if parents can’t be bothered to look after their children then they should leave them at home
This is the point really. The problem isn't the kids, it's the parents. None of the kids in our family were allowed out until they could sit still properly.

Its not fine for kids to be running around any restaurants or pubs. I wouldn't have taken my kids to a pub when they were younger for that reason. I don't have a problem with kids in any restaurant, noise I can accept, but my kids were taught they had to sit at peace or they were given something to amuse them.
Of course, it didn't always work when little so I took them home when they got fractious.

I went 10 years with no social life because I have dc and didn't wish to inflict them on others.

More fool you. Maybe that’s why you’re so uptight about families out enjoying themselves now.

I’ve not seen anyone on this thread defend letting children run around and scream in a pub or restaurant. That’s bad parenting and it happens everywhere sometimes unfortunately. On this thread I’ve seen parents say they enjoy going out with their children and sometimes their children cry or need a walk around and they deal with that as best they can. And there’s nothing wrong with that. Just because you’re a pious adult that didn’t venture out for ten years doesn’t mean other people shouldn’t live their lives. Some of you are so filled with adult angst!

Pubs are noisy anyway. If we had a babysitter and wanted a child free evening out we wouldn't go to a pub! We'd eat later, around 8 or 9pm, in a quiet restaurant. There's a lovely Thai restaurant near us, I've never seen any children there in the evening. Or a Sushi bar, open grill place or somewhere that doesn't appeal to parents with young children.

' A toddler running away shrieking gets indulgent smiles. Waiters make a fuss of children and bring them snacks, pick up a grumpy baby for a cuddle etc. '

Aw, where is this snuggly little utopia? I've lived in 11 different country and never seen this type of indulgence of toddlers shrieking in a bloody restaurant or waiters giving away food and babysitting.