CBB India

[Boyslikepinkgirlslikeblue]

As a biological female I have experienced:
A c section
Pre eclampsia (nearly died)
Single motherhood, currently 90% of all single parents are female, the 10% of men are considered progressive and put on pedestals
Sexual assault, a few times and one horrific incident
I have HPV and have had a lot of smears, and 3 lots of my cervix chopped off, all "pre cancerous cells" have another one next month wish me luck
I've been a victim of domestic violence (strangled me until I was unconscious and broke three of my toes) he was charged with criminal damage, like that's unusual? I'm 32
I have had a period every single month since I was 11 years old

My Aibu is this. Am I being fucking unreasonable to think that India willoughby from CBB is taking this piss out of what being a biological female means, because she somehow in her brain thinks she is an actual woman? How? I don't wake up I the morning and think "ooh I feel so womanly, I need lipstick a dress and eye liner"
I wake up and get on with life, regardless if I have a period or not, because that's who I am, not because who I believe I am.
I understand people who can't cope with gender stereotypes, but reducing being a woman to looking pretty and clothing boils my blood

She just seems a massive attention seeker to me. Sat blow drying her hair topless is something j would never do in a room full of friends I just wouldn't feel the need. or is it because men are brought up not to be ashamed of their breasts? This carries on into when they transition. They don't have the same shame women have with being topless.

It's exhibitionism. It's a major component of autogynophilia, which is a sexual fetish where men are aroused by others seeing them as sexy 'women'. It is well documented clinically and on countless porn sites (google 'sissy porn' or 'sissification' if you dare). The majority of trans-identified males are autogynophiles. Anne Lawrence, an autogynophiliac transsexual sex researcher, accurately described the phenomenon as 'men trapped in men's bodies'. It is a pornographic male fantasy which has nothing to do with the reality of women's lives, which is why India gets bored when women talk about that.

Drs Bailey and Blanchard describe AGP in their article Gender dysphoria is not one thing:

Autogynephilia is a male’s sexual arousal by the fantasy of being a woman. That is, autogynephilic males are turned on by thinking about themselves as women, or behaving like women... The most common behavior associated with autogynephilia during adolescence is fetishistic cross dressing. In this behavior, the adolescent male wears female clothing (typically, lingerie) in private, looks at himself in the mirror, and masturbates. Some autogynephilic males are not only sexually aroused by cross dressing, but also by the idea of having female body parts. These body-related fantasies are especially likely to be associated with gender dysphoria.

To me Bruce Jenner enjoyed the attention of being the famous one, "I have an Olympic medal" when the kardashians became famous mainly because of female sexuality, he thought "fuck it, I'm going to do it better than you, I'm the important one and you best remember that" he's a joke

To be fair about it, he has said he had hormone treatment and feminisation surgery in the 80s before he ever met Kris Kardashian.

He then pulled back from the brink of transitioning and hit the dating market again and was married with in a year. The photo record does bear that out.

On the bits of JUWTK that I saw Bruce was likeable and low-key and not at all a rampant male egotist.

When he then became Caitlyn, she was then reasonably no nonsense about her transition until she got howled down by a rabid horde of extremist TRAs and started to drink the koolaid.

I really don't think Jenner is the worst offender, in terms of approprative ideology.

India and Paris, OTOH...

Battleax I agree with you on Jenner, I don’t watch the show but in the interview she did with jenni Murray on woman’s hour she said all the right things about how she doesn’t class herself as woman but a trans woman, dead naming is something she doesn’t mind etc. She seemed really genuine too.

Bruce Jenner is a classic example of an autogynophiliac transsexual. Heterosexual, mid-life transition after years of erotically driven cross-dressing. He's on record saying that he used to sneak into his daughters' bedrooms and try on their underwear.

There are a lot of different mental health conditions now converging under the banner of 'trans', but autogynophilia is the one that is driving the current political agenda of demedicalising trans identity for adults, while simultaneously promoting the medicalisation of children deemed 'trans'.

The reason AGPs want there to be NO medical requirements for changing legal sex is that most don't have dysmorphia about their male bodies and do not want to undergo surgery (although some do, like Jenner). Only a minority of AGPs are transsexuals - see Bailey and Blanchard again:

It is likely that most autogynephilic males do not pursue gender reassignment, but this is difficult to know... Many males with autogynephilia are content to cross dress occasionally. Some get married to women and many also have children. Family formation is no guarantee against later transition, although that may slow it up somewhat. In past decades, when autogynephilic males have transitioned, they have most often done so during the ages 30-50, after having married women and fathered children. It is possible that autogynephilic males have recently been attempting transition at younger ages, including adolescence.

4thwavenow.com/2017/12/07/gender-dysphoria-is-not-one-thing/

I didn't realise Bruce Jenner accepted he was male. To be honest I'm not usually so judgmental about other people's lives. It just really annoys me how womanhood is being reduced to a stereotypical costume anybody can wear.

No, I know OP it feels like a flood, but I make a point of acknowledging reasonable transpeople being reasonable when I see or hear it

I agree too op with that the bitchy, hair flicking girly girl thing drives me crazy. Not wanting to derail as this is a thread about India but here’s a clip from the woman’s hour I mentioned.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0515bd4

In an era where people are slammed for citrusy appropriation if they dare wear certain clothes or listen to certain music I’m at a loss as to why it’s deemed ok for blokes to try and appropriate women’s identities. Well at a loss until I think of how women are still largely seen as powerless and should just put up and shut up and be thankful for whatever they have.

*cultural appropriation

It will be interesting to see if IW bangs on to the men about his transition as much as he did with the women.

The AGP thing makes a lot of sense.

Obviously it's a complex thing but if you have considered yourself female you're whole life why when you get the body you always should have had do you treat it like a 21 year olds? This is specifically relating to India really but that metallic bikini she wore - my DM is just a couple of years older and would never wear something like that. Even the name is not a typical one in India's age range you would just think that you would want to be what you consider you always have been.

I couldn't agree more with so many points made here.

I watched last night's episode in disbelief, I know being a woman is not a 'one size fits all' thing but India's behaviour, choice of language and attitude felt far from being a woman in my eyes. Not just because of the subject title but she stuck out like a sore thumb and when all the women were gathered round the kitchen during the argument I could see the divide so clearly with all the other women trying to either calm the situation down or just generally feeling extremely uncomfortable, it was as though India was projecting herself to be this force to squash these women and impose some form of power or hold over them. It was pretty horrible to see and I felt extremely sorry for Amanda who I feel made a mistake with no real malace intended.

citrusy appropriation

How dare you. I am a real lemon, I love being squeezed, have a real affinity for drizzle cake and gin, and have had citrus reassignment to make my skin yellow and my juice extra sour. Do not miscitrus me by calling me an orange. I AM A REAL LEMON....

hazey

IW not getting a great deal of love on twitter. That said I’m blocked by sooooo many TRAs & handmaidens... in fact, maybe that means what I’m seeing is the actual opinion of “jo public”.

Wow. Waiting for DS2 to finish swimming, so watched the video and perused BBUK Facebook comments. India is being slated by all, even trans supporters! They're saying things like 'She is a woman but not a very nice one' oh, it's delicious. India may now realise that one of the fun bits of being a 'real' woman is being socially ostracized if you don't at least try to play nice and make peace. We don't take well to aggressive types who don't play the social game....

I was wasn't shocked when IW ran to the bedroom complaining the women's conversation was boring. Sit and learn something, as all the women have listened to your story.

Even the name is not a typical one in India's age range

This is my argument. How many 50 year olds are called India. If IW has always felt like a female surely he would have 'adopted' a female persona as a child appropriate tot he era (such as Deborah or Lisa) and continued to see her/himself as that person as they have matured.

So I would have then thought IW would have awoken from surgery to say finally I am now Jane. In my mind the name India is a drag name.

Donkey Those extracts are really interesting. I think it maybe a sexual fetish to dress in babydoll nighties or blow-dry your long blond hair whilst topless because thats not what a 50 yo woman does. Either that or getting a kick out making real women feel uncomfortable.

One of the things I noticed was that after the initial spat with Amanda and India had walked off the ladies sat around still referred to her as he several times without even noticing. I don't think it would happen at all if she wasn't in the house for that exact reason!!

It just shows really that it’s quite difficult to overcome the evidence of your senses and refer to a man as a woman, or vice versa. It’s unconscious I would think and not usually intended to offend —especially if the person in question is behaving like an entitled bloke and shouting about penetrating—

I can never make strikeouts work anymore

OP you have expressed this better than I could. Genuinely appalled that IW was chosen to go into the CBB house in the Year of the Woman. The reaction to 82 year old Amanda Barrie’s accidental use of ‘he’ instead of the preferred ‘she’ was disgraceful - bullying, aggressive, domineering - all behaviours which no doubt served Jonathan Willoughby well in the first 50 years of his life.

“I am a real woman!” No, you most certainly are not.

I've only experienced 2 of the things on your list.... does that make me less of a woman???

( I can't stand India) but don't see what that list you wrote has to do with "being a woman" other than the periods and smears

I've only experienced 2 of the things on your list.... does that make me less of a woman???

No, but being a man would make do. Its examples of things women experience but men never ever do

India has made such a huge issue with her demanding to be recognised as a woman. She reminds me of my DC when they were stroppy teenagers. Demanding to be treated as adults but only on their terms.

YANBU.

I absolutely fucking LOATHE India.

If I said what I think about her, I would be banned from mumsnet.

But I LOATHE her for the same reasons you listed OP!

The kindest words I can give are that India is a massive, attention-seeking, narcissistic, clueless fucking twat.