CBB India

[Boyslikepinkgirlslikeblue]

As a biological female I have experienced:
A c section
Pre eclampsia (nearly died)
Single motherhood, currently 90% of all single parents are female, the 10% of men are considered progressive and put on pedestals
Sexual assault, a few times and one horrific incident
I have HPV and have had a lot of smears, and 3 lots of my cervix chopped off, all "pre cancerous cells" have another one next month wish me luck
I've been a victim of domestic violence (strangled me until I was unconscious and broke three of my toes) he was charged with criminal damage, like that's unusual? I'm 32
I have had a period every single month since I was 11 years old

My Aibu is this. Am I being fucking unreasonable to think that India willoughby from CBB is taking this piss out of what being a biological female means, because she somehow in her brain thinks she is an actual woman? How? I don't wake up I the morning and think "ooh I feel so womanly, I need lipstick a dress and eye liner"
I wake up and get on with life, regardless if I have a period or not, because that's who I am, not because who I believe I am.
I understand people who can't cope with gender stereotypes, but reducing being a woman to looking pretty and clothing boils my blood

this awful and degrading insistence that she isn't a woman.

She's a transwoman. Socially, that is a woman. What more can anyone expect?

It's not "degrading" to say that she's not a genetic woman or that she doesn't pass as a natal woman. That's just factual.

India's behaviour and speeches can't be considered in isolation from the question of male socialization and the difference between transwomen and women, Lyra.

@LyraPotter people are not clownfish, or reptiles, or mushrooms.

People can have all kinds of interesting chromosomal arrangements that don't necessarily match with their outward appearance, but most don't, and it's mostly irrelevant when they do - male socialisation happens when a baby has a penis, female socialisation happens when a baby has a vulva..

And many intersex individuals and organisations have asked for their issues not to be appropriated in discussions about transness, so perhaps we might respect that.

In many ways the posters on this thread are upset on behalf of the trans community. Who, incidentally, can't bear IW as their ambassador either.

Lyra
Are you serious?

@LyraPotter you sound like the social justice Taliban.
Stop trying to ram your beliefs down people's throats by insisting they are facts.

India is a bloke in a dress, he is not a woman and does not experience the crap like has highlighted, that women have to go through. Misogenism(Indian as a 'woman', is displaying this right there!), domestic violence, high risk of being attacked or assulted, rape, the difference in pay with men and women, just to name a few. This can only come about be being born biologically Female. Its like me putting on brown make up, and telling people I am black and trying to get in with issues affecting black people. It is wrong and insulting.

India is a transwoman, he is not a biological woman.

India is male. He will never become female. He has XY through every cell in his body. No amount of reiterative babble about plants and hormones and 'feeling' like a woman' or wishful thinking will change this.

Neither will stamping his size 11 feet like a disgruntled toddler. He is not a woman.

But you ought to have the basic human decency to criticise her views and her behaviour without all this awful and degrading insistence that she isn't a woman.

Erm, no.

You ought to have the basic human decency not to describe accurate descriptions of India's sex as gaslighting. Your behaviour is, in itself, gaslighting. And misogynistic.

this awful and degrading insistence that she isn't a woman

Why is it "awful and degrading" to describe someone as a transwoman, LyraPotter? Are you a transphobe?

India is a transwoman. There's nothing wrong in being a transwoman, and I am sick of being called a transphobe when I describe transwomen as transwomen. There's a lot wrong, however, when transwomen and their allied insist that "transwoman" is a terrible term to use for a transwoman, and there's a lot wrong when transwomen and their allies insist that transwomen are are exactly the same as women, or insist that transwomen are more oppressed than women and also are oppressed BY women. They aren't. Tranwomen are gender nonconforming males/men, and there's nothing wrong in that. But they are males/men nonetheless.

Like most MNetters, I had always respected trans people's wish to be called by their pronoun of choice. I am no longer prepared to do this because I have seen where it leads. It is impossible to satisfy TRAs - for every inch they are given, they take a mile from women. They have used women's sympathy and kindness to undermine our rights at every turn. Enough.

India describing drag queens as clowns and creepy really pissed me off. It equally pissed me off when India stayed her mum named her after her favourite take away - and Indian. That is boarding on fantasy.

India is a transwoman. Not a woman.

*an not and.

I've joined the CBB thread over on Telly Addicts and MN have deleted a number of posts - the assumption is it's where IW is referred to as 'he'. I shall, from now on, not refer to IW as in the male or female sense.

IW's comment about dating, stating 'I'm straight' is frightening. IW really see's themselves female but in reality will really struggle to find a straight man. As IW is biologically a male having to take medication for life and undergo drastic surgery doesn't make you female.

If - god forbid - something dreadful were to happen to India, so that the only way to identify the body when it was found were to be through DNA testing - what do you think the results would say, Lyra?

Why is the spotlight on trans issues always on transgender women? Where are all the transgender men feeling that they are not being accepted as men? Why is the internet and media not awash with transgender men talking about themselves at great lengths? Men are more vocal, more powerful, more outspoken, more dominant, more ego driven, this is usually attributed to testosterone! But given that those with more testosterone are quieter than those with less, it makes me wonder if the way men dominate is less to do with testosterone and more to do with culture.

Well someone expecting acceptance needs to stop to referring to Ann Widdicombe (in the Diary Room) in such a derogatory manner, especially when IW told Ann they could swap beds and then had a big sulk about it. Someone needs to grow up and be professional, polite and sensible!

Don't be silly... no men are really expected to see trans men as men.

It's like a breath of fresh air to read such an honest, and truthful, thread.

You cannot change biological sex. I am more than happy to say her/she if that's her preference as a transwoman, but she isn't, and never will ge, a "real woman".

She's a complete bully, who I think is very aggressive- and nasty.

The thing is IW has benefited from being a ‘privileged ‘ individual. Namely , being white, middle class and ‘male’.
She now finds that she is a ‘minority’ and to some extent that privilege has been eroded.
She obviously needs therapy to deal with her issues.
However, in my opinion India is a nasty , self obsessed , manipulative irrespective of her gender.

Hang on...
"And you can be male because you have two X chromosomes, but your heart and brain are male"

Unless India has some sort of genetic chimerism, I'm quite sure both India's heart and brain cells contain XY chromosomes (just like every cell in India's body that has a nucleus).

Or are you referring to some kind of "soul"?

@LyraPotter

How do you define woman?