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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

CBB India

375 replies

Boyslikepinkgirlslikeblue · 05/01/2018 22:21

As a biological female I have experienced:
A c section
Pre eclampsia (nearly died)
Single motherhood, currently 90% of all single parents are female, the 10% of men are considered progressive and put on pedestals
Sexual assault, a few times and one horrific incident
I have HPV and have had a lot of smears, and 3 lots of my cervix chopped off, all "pre cancerous cells" have another one next month wish me luck
I've been a victim of domestic violence (strangled me until I was unconscious and broke three of my toes) he was charged with criminal damage, like that's unusual? I'm 32
I have had a period every single month since I was 11 years old

My Aibu is this. Am I being fucking unreasonable to think that India willoughby from CBB is taking this piss out of what being a biological female means, because she somehow in her brain thinks she is an actual woman? How? I don't wake up I the morning and think "ooh I feel so womanly, I need lipstick a dress and eye liner"
I wake up and get on with life, regardless if I have a period or not, because that's who I am, not because who I believe I am.
I understand people who can't cope with gender stereotypes, but reducing being a woman to looking pretty and clothing boils my blood

OP posts:
JAPAB · 14/01/2018 12:37

My Aibu is this. Am I being fucking unreasonable to think that India willoughby from CBB is taking this piss out of what being a biological female means, because she somehow in her brain thinks she is an actual woman?

There will be biological females who have not experienced those things either. It is subjective that they are "taking the piss" out of anything by considering themselves to be women, as is the case here.

Also, unless if she actually claims to be biologically female, of the sex that gives birth etc, how can she be taking the piss out of this. It is like asking if someone is taking the piss out of what it means to be biologically female by considering themselves to be a homosexual.

sagamartha · 14/01/2018 13:25

I just can't imagine any straight man entering into a relationship with anyone they don't really fancy

I suppose that depends on the defintion of 'attracted to' and 'fancy' ? Can that only be defined as sexually attracted or are there other definitions?

The Shane / Ashley and Courtney / Ashley thing is interesting. Ashley seems to be attracted to Courtney. Is it a sexual attraction? Is he sexually attracted to Shane? Would he have sex with Courtney but not Shane?

TheDayIBroke · 14/01/2018 13:35

Unfortunately, India has achieved the opposite of what they intended to achieve. By constantly banging on about "I'm a woman" and behaving the way they did, it has completely turned me off to the whole trans thing. India's whole behaviour was not "womanly" at all and struck me as desperately exhibitionist and self centred. It made for toe-curling tv.

sagamartha · 14/01/2018 13:55

India's whole behaviour was not "womanly" at all and struck me as desperately exhibitionist and self centred

If she had behaved 'womanly', some people would have then said she was trying to behave to a stereotype and then had a go at her for trying 'too hard'.

By constantly banging on about "I'm a woman" and behaving the way they did, it has completely turned me off to the whole trans thing

It's a shame some people's views of a group are shaped by the behaviour of certain individuals.

QuackPorridgeBacon · 14/01/2018 14:03

She isn’t a woman. It literally is that simple. Woman has a meaning that she doesn’t fit into. She is a trans woman, own it.

TheDayIBroke · 14/01/2018 14:45

I agree Quack.

busyboysmum · 14/01/2018 15:26

I agree. And the definition of what constitutes a woman under the law now needs clarifying.

HermioneWeasley · 14/01/2018 15:36

This reply has been deleted

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noeffingidea · 14/01/2018 15:55

Sagamartha do we really have to define what fancy/ sexually attracted means?
No we don't. Men - penis gets hard. Women - vagina gets wet.
You can try and deny it if you want, but that is the end result of sexual attraction, and it is a biological process.

CrookBook · 14/01/2018 16:29

Woman=adult human female, which IW isnt

I would need an alternative definition of 'woman', if i was being asked to reconsider

sagamartha · 14/01/2018 17:03

o we really have to define what fancy/ sexually attracted means

Do you not think that there other ways people can be attracted to others that don't have anything to do with sexual arousal?

Or do you simply believe that you have to be sexually aroused to be attracted to them and want a romantic relationship with them?

busyboysmum · 14/01/2018 17:07

That would be friendship surely.

sagamartha · 14/01/2018 17:10

That would be friendship surely

There are plenty of people in relationships that would be defined as romantic without having to have sexual attraction.

QuackPorridgeBacon · 14/01/2018 17:46

Show me these people then. I'm failing to think of anyone that would be in a romantic relationship, without any romance or some sort of sexual attraction. What you are describing would be friendship. So much jumping through hoops to justify why people are transphobic if they don't fancy a trans person. What is the world coming to fs. I'm not attracted to elderly men, does that make me ageist? For me a romantic relationship involves having children (naturally if possible) I can't get that with a trans person, therefore no attraction.

sagamartha · 14/01/2018 17:56

Show me these people then. I'm failing to think of anyone that would be in a romantic relationship, without any romance or some sort of sexual attraction

There are plenty of people in romantic relationships with romance but without sexual attraction or even feeling the need to have sex. www.asexuality.org/

For me a romantic relationship involves having children (naturally if possible) I can't get that with a trans person, therefore no attraction

That's great for you.It's what works for you and it's the way you are.

sagamartha · 14/01/2018 17:59

So much jumping through hoops to justify why people are transphobic if they don't fancy a trans person

No one is transphobic if they don't fancy a trans person.

But it is possible to have a romantic relationship with someone without having to have sexual relationships with people and to form a special and deep relationship that goes beyond friendship. Sex isn't the be all and end all for some people.

SlowlyShrinking · 14/01/2018 18:04

But it is possible to have a romantic relationship with someone without having to have sexual relationships with people and to form a special and deep relationship that goes beyond friendship. Sex isn't the be all and end all for some people
I don’t think anyone’s told India Willoughby that. I also think what’s the point of having bottom surgery if you’re not going to have sex with anyone?

sagamartha · 14/01/2018 18:13

I don’t think anyone’s told India Willoughby that

She has her own issues to sort out. But I am hope she finds someone to be with in her life and who wants to share their life with her. She is going to face a lot of rejection as their will be people who don't want a relationship with her - for many reasons. If she is able to just be herself, then who knows what will happen. It's just going to be difficult for her - but there are many other people who do find meeting the right partner difficult.

No one has the right to a partner. No one has the right to criticise people if they don't find them attractive.

But I do hope she does find someone if that's what she wants. Everyone deserves to be happy.

papayasareyum · 14/01/2018 18:54

she’s harping on about being a heterosexual woman on twitter. When I hear this, I can’t help thinking nope, you’re a gay man in denial

QuackPorridgeBacon · 14/01/2018 20:08

I’m watching bit on the side (Fridays one) and it makes me feel sick how she likens herself to a 15 year old girl going through puberty. I think I get what she means but what she is going through is nothing like a young woman going trough puberty. It’s fucking ridiculous and so self absorbed.

DoloresvonTrope · 14/01/2018 22:18

I read about a former BB contestant who seems to be having a hard living as
a woman and suggests people think careful before going through with everything.

sagamartha · 14/01/2018 22:49

I suppose a lot of ths 'success of transition' depends on how you live your life, what your expectations are, how people view you and perceive you, how you are treated with regards to work etc, family and friend relationships and other factors like that.

I do think India may be affected by the very public reaction to her time in the house. She may be putting on a brave face but hearing the crowd reaction to her being put up for eviction must have been tough mentally. It would have been tough for anyone.

kooshbin · 14/01/2018 22:49

Possibly not the best thread to write this, and anyway it's a bit long.

I may be mis-remembering this; if so, I’m sure someone will correct me.

In that bit where most of the women were discussing sexism and misogyny and India went off for a pee, I wondered what the conversation meant for her. She couldn’t participate, because that’s a significant part of womanhood that she didn’t have, being a male until she was 50. It But then I wondered if she felt maybe guilty in joining in sexist talk at work when she was a man.

I almost felt sorry for her. But then she bitched about it in the bedroom with another housemate, something like: that kind of chat gets on her tits? Very dismissive.

I couldn’t understand what she was doing with a pillow on her head, until she said something about practising the walk. Which is where it all came together for me.

She insists she’s a real woman, but she doesn’t have the experience of growing up as a girl and woman. She cannot be part of the “sisterhood”, for want of a better term. She even has to learn to walk the walk, because her male biology means she has a male gait as her pelvis/hips are not female.

It’s all a house of cards, isn’t it? She, like others, have been fed a lie. And when that lie gets challenged, as it should be, then that house of cards comes tumbling down, with possibly catastrophic consequences for the psychologically vulnerable.

But, in the meantime, and to prevent that consequence, we women have to shut up. Their lie is more important than our truth.

busyboysmum · 14/01/2018 22:54

I have never seen the public and crowd response so kept from anyone as it was from India. Never. The crowd were told they were not allowed to boo. When has that ever happened before?

QuackPorridgeBacon · 15/01/2018 00:09

I was annoyed about the crowd reaction being silenced. And watching both Emma and rylan pussy footing around her. Emma does ask the good questions usually but with India she couldn’t stop licking her arse. Equality my big toe. Such a brilliant series so far as the house is great with the discussions and the calm etc but a fucking joke at the same time. I will be tuning in to the wright stuff later, can’t stand the host but I’m watching to see if he actually calls her out. The drag queen form the photos already has. Grin

Can’t find the post now. But the drag queen in the phot with the black wig actually made a video stating that India (and he didn’t know who she was and he was paid because he was performing) approached him for a photo and she did seem nice but not so much now. Was a great video, it’s on Twitter.

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