To have lost any remaining shred of belief that this country gives a toss about women and girls?

[Betti935]

Just within the last couple of days we have had:

Theodore Johnson repeatedly released from prison to kill more women:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/02/man-pleads-guilty-murdering-ex-girlfriend-angela-best-theodore-johnson

John Worboys, one of the UK's most prolific rapists, being released from prison:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-42571219

And now child rapists being spared jail because sex with girls who are a) under the age of consent and b) 'out of it' on the drugs they plied them with can apparently be 'consensual'.

metro.co.uk/2018/01/04/mothers-anger-two-men-spared-jail-sex-14-year-old-girls-7203852/

Mumsnet doesn't have an angry enough smiley for how I feel.

ForalltheSaints
That’s because women can also be part of the patriarchy. My mother is a misogynist and believes men are superior. She brought my brother up to believe he is superior to me. Therefore he can threaten and assault me. Because he is male. Even my iPad thinks so. It autocorrects Male to have capital M. See. I didn’t do that. Let’s try female. Oh look. What a surprise. .

It’s a woman (TM) who’s cut the police force, closing the DV refuges, causing the homeless population to explode. That sickens me too. I don’t go in for all that sisterhood stuff usually- not arsed about what sex someone is my rule of life is don’t be a cunt to me and I don’t be one to you. But it really is a kick in the teeth when a woman has significantly helped to cause the suffering of so many other women.

And she’s not the only one by any stretch. I’ve met (and argued with) far too many women who blame other women for being raped, abused by their spouse and even murdered. As my now ex MIL once said about a young rape victim “bet she’ll think twice about walking around at night on her own, stupid girl”

In answer to "why should they be entitled to a defence?" Ruby LennoxExists" said correctly Because when a lawyer defends someone they don't know whether the person is guilty or not - it is the job of the jury, having heard all the evidence, to make that decision...* but also because, if someone is found guilty without all the defence evidence being heard, then it is possibly to cast doubt on the conviction, and there will always be someone around saying that person was innocent and wrongly convicted. So if you want to ensure a rapist is well and truly nailed, you make sure he has had the chance to present his best defence in the best possible way, and that it is still not enough to cast doubt on his conviction.

'my now ex MIL once said about a young rape victim “bet she’ll think twice about walking around at night on her own, stupid girl” angry'

My mother has said similar things about women who have been raped. It's like they're almost gleeful that some 'stupid girl' has got her comeuppance for daring to walk around alone. As if rape is an appropriate punishment for any kind of vaguely risky behaviour. I know it's all about reassuring themselves that 'it could never happen to me' but the total lack of empathy is frightening

I haven’t spoken a word to the nasty old cow since I walked out on her son and took our 2 children with me. I wonder what she thinks of her son being a rapist? But then as it happened in the house I shared with him and not a dark alley in a bad part of town at night she probably wouldn’t believe me anyway. Or thinks it’s my fault. God. She must be in turmoil. Between not believing me and wanting to blame it on me at the same time....

Yep. My mother who I love and has been a fabulous mother to me said just the other day regarding a 43 year old friend of the family who had an affair with a 16 yo pupil of his that she blamed the girl. She also believes men shouldn't do housework and is blown away by my partner cooking his own dinner/ pushing the hoover around/ taking our twins out alone. Although we both work. I feel angry at her because I think she failed in her duty to try to make the world a better place for the next generation of women. Her daughter and granddaughters.

I'm really sorry to hear that Little. Im glad that man is out of your life

Bauble, it's shocking isn't it?! I find it amazing that a woman in that situation identifies with the predatory man, not the vulnerable 16 year old that she probably once was herself.

Little that is awful.

www.millionwomenrise.com

It seems to me women's rights are going back to the dark ages.

Add to it that anyone is allowed to identify as a woman and I truly despair.

I honestly can't say that I care abut any of this. Does that diminish my 'female rights'. The first guy is clearly a nutter. The taxi rapist - well, you can't jail someone indefinitely for just rape. That's not worthy of life in jail.
I think as females we just need to grow a pair and get on with it. The world has it's small selection of bad people. Unfortunately.

Wow wrenika, where to even start with that one! 'Just rape', are you on glue?

I genuinely believe that this is something that women can’t fix. It has to come from men - it needs ALL men to say ‘this is completely unacceptable, and we won’t stand for it’. We can’t change these attitudes alone, the world doesn’t listen to women - but it does listen to men, and there’s a huge shortage of men who are willing to help, or see it as anything but a women’s problem.

Wrenika take some time to talk to people in the criminal justice system who deal with violence against women and girls. Police and cps are taking a pasting over worboys but there are many good people in both who could open your eyes to the scale of the problem and could explain to you how “growing a pair” wouldn’t have helped any of those victims.
You are ignorant. Educate yourself before you spout provocative rubbish online. You are part of the problem right now.

Absolutely agree Pumper. Women have been screaming from the rooftops about this for so long and it feels like so little has changed. Where are the men saying that they are sick of this too, that they are disgusted by misogyny and fed up of women being expected to fix the problem?

Wrenika, it must be comforting to live in a world of clichés - 'grow a pair', 'get on with it', 'nutter'. As for your 'just rape' comment, can you even grasp how incredibly offensive that is? What do you think would be an appropriate sentence for 'just rape'?

We do ‘get on with it’ and still they rape and beat us. Fuck off and find your humanity Wrenika.

Humanity plus brain, surely? Both in short supply it seems to me

Ignore wrenika. Can't argue with stupid.

Maybe the problem here is with the justice system?
We like to think of ourselves as a liberal society, with our prison system geared towards rehabilitation & maybe even forgiveness? Everyone deserves a 2nd chance? that sort of thing. ( Obviously that doesn’t apply to all criminals - mass murderers for example )
But where someone hasn’t committed murder the lines are maybe a bit blurred?
I don’t know?
Thing is, having your house burgled can have a devastating effect on some people, same with being mugged. But none of these criminals are put away for life, none of them - I’m not sure how the sentencing differs for rape / sexual assult ? but clearly in the two cases highlighted on this thread you do not receive a life sentence?
If we become a ‘lock them up & throw away the key’ society we become extreme right wing - with no faith in rehabilitation. That goes against liberal thinking.

It’s why feminism is so tied up in knots.

Honestly, feminism seems less tied up in knots than it has in the 30 years for me. Despite all the disagreements, most of us are rallying around the question of objectification in one form or another. This is good for feminism.

Surferjet it’s not really a fair comparison to burglary though, is it? You’re not told your whole life to look out for burglars and if your house is broken into, I doubt many people are told ‘it’s your fault because your house looked too tempting, you should have had a less tempting house’. Plus theft affects everyone - sex-related crimes are overwhelming carried out to women, by men.

I also don’t agree that it’s a problem with the justice system, many offenders are given harsh punishments for lesser crimes. And I DO agree with the previous poster - if Warboys had been a prolific raper of men does anyone seriously think he would have had the same sentence?

The point with Worboys is he did receive a life sentence but has been released after 8 years.
Makes you wonder what the point of having a life sentence option is.

Similarly those two men got a suspended sentence for having sex with two drunk and drugged 14 year olds. Makes you wonder what the point of statutory rape and the incapacity clause is.

The law is written to try to protect women and girls but isn't being applied in that sense.

Feminism is not tied up in knots because feminists recognise this. The issue we have is trying to get wider society to recognise this and not start expending energy and attention on false accusations, right to rehabilitation, women rapists etc.

Statutory rape doesn’t exist in the U.K. if it did, those men would have gone down. More’s the pity. Child molesters don’t go down well in jail.

We have an age of consent though. Allegedly. And it's not 14

Isn’t it called “unlawful sex with a minor” or something?

Also I am a world class expert at picking myself up and getting on with my life post rape. I do it every fucking day. Because I have no other choice. As does every other victim of “just rape” I know and ones that I don’t. Count your lucky stars you apparently have never been in that situation.