To have lost any remaining shred of belief that this country gives a toss about women and girls?

[Betti935]

Just within the last couple of days we have had:

Theodore Johnson repeatedly released from prison to kill more women:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/02/man-pleads-guilty-murdering-ex-girlfriend-angela-best-theodore-johnson

John Worboys, one of the UK's most prolific rapists, being released from prison:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-42571219

And now child rapists being spared jail because sex with girls who are a) under the age of consent and b) 'out of it' on the drugs they plied them with can apparently be 'consensual'.

metro.co.uk/2018/01/04/mothers-anger-two-men-spared-jail-sex-14-year-old-girls-7203852/

Mumsnet doesn't have an angry enough smiley for how I feel.

YA so NBU

What a thoroughly shit time to be a woman

The first things in the last link was the the judgement was under review. Clearly the country, the AG and, the judicial system does care and is actively ensuring that the law adequately protects women through this review. Individual judges and juries don't always get it right but the system allows appeals and reviews to prevent individual mistakes becoming systematic problems. Try harder.

I've been watching The Handmaiden's Tale and it's terrifying, because at the moment it doesn't seem so impossible...!

I do wonder about what is going through the minds of these judges who do not consider these to be serious crimes.

It's the same here in this country. Apparently things are slowly changing but I've seen little evidence as yet.

It is horrific. We need another revolution. All women throat the world standing together and demanding change.

Agreed. However,

and if we raise our voices against the hate crime wave against women, we’re “feminists” - said with sheer disgust as the word is apparently now an insult.

We as women are being eroded. By MRA’s, by a certain section of TIM’s, some of whom I believe are MRA’s. And by the passivity of the average male, who really doesn’t have a clue there is even a problem. And more distressingly, by a proportion of the natal female population.

Just commenting in support of this thread and the petition. No idea what else to say. Too sickened

Yes, it does feel like a war on women. There is this aspect - we can be used as men see fit, and if we seek legal redress we will get the minimum of justice if any. Women's shelters are being shut hand over fist so it is now harder to leave an abusive relationship. The cuts in out of work benefits hits women (especially vulnerable women with complex needs - either physical or mental) disproportionately harder. Women still earn less than men and "women's work" is financially not as well respected or paid. Maternity services and children's centres are cut to the bone, making it harder for women to get the support they need at one of the times of biggest change in their lives. And the media seems to revel in pitting us against each other - circle of shames, judgey comments about other women's lifestyle choices.

I think there is lots of good stuff going on - the #metoo movement, reclaim the night is still going on, but I honestly can't imagine a scenario where women just all come together in one amazing powerhouse of sisterhood and solidarity and smash the patriarchy. How I would love it though!

Nowhere in the world gives a fuck.

This absolutely makes me seethe.

Saw this on Twitter: " John Worboys spent less than one year in jail for every ten women he raped." It's absolutely disgusting.

Also, I totally agree with @Birdsgottafly who said there needs to be some kind of large group reaction to the premise that men can't help themselves. Who is going to be man enough to do that? Is there anyone we can think of that would be someone we could approach to start that reaction? Any male celebrities that are willing to stand up against this?

The whole "MeToo" thing was an effective but wholly short term expression of a much larger, embedded issue. It takes more than a Twitter handle whizzing around the internet for a month or so for things to change.

I can’t find it just now, but my husband told me last night that ( I think 7 from 9) of the Rochdale grooming gang are now free and fighting deportation backed by government funded legal aid.

I can’t tell you how much that made my blood boil, as at that time we were watching the news report about the taxi rapist.

WTF - no wonder some men think nothing of rape.

There's a petition to get this to go to Parliament:

www.change.org/p/uk-parliament-reverse-the-parole-board-s-decision-to-free-the-black-cab-rapist-john-worboys

We need to organise a global women's march - one where we could take our children; kickstart a revolution.

Oh wait, it'll be hijacked by MRA's and TRA's...who will spectacularly derail it and make it all about them.

When I'm in this kind of black mood, I feel like starting a war 😡😞

Didn't the taxi driver get convicted on just1 rape ?

No doubt worboys will benefit from huge amounts of public money being spent to protect him from the otherwise inevitable results of the public revulsion against him.
This should not happen. He was an adult of sound mind when he committed his crimes. If that means he is hated, shunned, persecuted and frightened for the rest of his pathetic life well, them’s the breaks.

That last link 😯
And we keep getting told accusations "ruin men's lives"
Fuck off.

Lisa Thompson, Chief Exec of a rape and sexual attack support group was just interviewed on BBC breakfast _ she spoke well about the systemic failure of our legal system. "Should we trust in our legal system?" was asked, and her very clear answer was "absolutely not. We need to challenge it".

Tell me how we challenge it, for ALL the reasons stated in this thread and
More, and I'll do it. We all need to. I just don't know how.

Sadly that last one doesn't surprise me. The twat that regularly raped me from 13 to 15 was spared jail because he claimed that I hadn't been a virgin at the time and had a reputation for sleeping around with much older men. Which shouldn't ever be considered a defence anyway but also wasn't even true, I didn't have consensual sex until I was 17. He wasn't even asked to prove any of it, he was just instantly believed when he said I was a slut and obviously that made it ok, despite the fact he was an adult. He actually used the words 'I wasn't the oldest or the first, she aint exactly fussy'.

welsh I wrote some thoughts on a thread in feminism - but I think now I might write them in a letter to the DPP/equalities minister.

They were:
The man would have to explain what he did to actively get consent, rather than the victim defend why she didnt consent.
We could get rid of the "reasonable belief of consent" clause as it actively works against the lack of capacity clause (e.g through drink or drugs).
We could introduce a crime like "reckless penetration" or "penetrating without due care and attention" for cases where it seems the man did very little to get consent but rape can't be proved.
The court case could be heard by a panel of expert judges rather than a jury. The trial could be inquisitorial rather than adversarial (so more like an inquest or enquiry). This would also allow a wider range of verdicts.
We could use more sexual offence prevention orders where offenders are assessed as posing a risk to women, even if found not guilty.
We could change bail guidelines so men aren't hanging round for ages waiting for a charging decision and so the impact on innocent men is minimised.

In the light of this recent stuff I might also add definition of a mandatory minimum sentence for sexual assault/rape (so people found guilty cant get a suspended sentence) and getting rid of sentences running concurrently. (So someone like warboys doesnt end up serving the sentence for just one rape).

So angry. I too want to know what we can do. It's hard not to take it personal when it's a systemic attack on women that is getting worse by the day.

I feel that women are becoming less and less important.

I think young women are being sold the idea that they will have it all- without understanding that the reality of being a woman isn’t that simple. I am far more openly feminist than younger acquaintances as they believe that they’ll be fine because “everything is equal isn’t it?”. No, it bloody isn’t!

Until women no longer need to worry about walking through that dark car park to get to the car, wonder if going part time will affect their long term career or have to pay 5% tax on a vital product used for 1/4 of their lives for 35 years things are not equal.

What I find just as worrying is the fact that considerate, caring men- who would consider their relationships to be about equals, who are bringing up daughters to be independent and focussed on their abilities and dreams- don’t understand any of this either. Clearly life experience isn’t equal.

Sorry- a bit rambling and off topic. My mind is currently awash with lots of thoughts about these issues and I haven’t straightened them out into coherent sentences yet.

If women want to do more than just talk - why don’t you all delete your Uber app ?

Uber’s record on sexual assault & rape is appalling, & it’s on a regular basis.
Society doesn’t care about women, but it cares about money - if you want to make a point, hit them where it hurts.
But women ( & plenty of feminists ) will continue to use Uber, so don’t be surprised when no one takes you seriously.

Oh, forgot to add murdering women to Uber’s list.

The problem with the Warboys case is that he was only actually convicted of one rape but the police believe that he was responsible for over 100 after multiple victims came forward after he was jailed.

So in his “defence” the parole board would presumably argue that he was serving a sentence for committing a rape, whereas evidently it seems he was responsible for hundreds more.

So, off the back of the outrage that is currently rightly being expressed over this case, is there a way to bring all the other rape accusations to a fresh trial and have those added to his conviction and thus ensure he is never released?

The parole board and other defenders would argue that we practice innocent until proven guilty in this country. So let’s find the bastard guilty of the other rapes and ensure that “most prolific rapist” is a proven term rather than one based on a belief. Iyswim.

But women ( & plenty of feminists ) will continue to use Uber, so don’t be surprised when no one takes you seriously.
Don't be a Muppet.
Women are not getting raped and murdered by men because feminists haven't boycotted uber.