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Original poster

To think that women should be able to request a female doctor or nurse?

811 replies

Betti935 · 31/12/2017 01:15

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/the-female-nhs-nurse-i-asked-for-came-with-stubble-83rq9p0gg

Summary: A woman requested a female nurse to carry out her cervical smear test. When she arrived the nurse was clearly male (stubble, deep voice etc). When she questioned this, the nurse insisted that they were a woman because they were trans. The patient says she was made to feel like a bigot and in the end decided not to go ahead with the smear test.

Now in this case, the NHS Trust has apologised and said that the nurse did not handle the situation appropriately. However the government are planning to introduce into law the recommendations of the Women and Equalities Committee which include, not only allowing men to 'self-identify' as women without any medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria, but also to get rid of the exemptions currently in place.

Currently, while biological males can legally 'become' women (following a diagnosis of gender dysphoria - there is already no requirement to have any hormone treatment or surgery), there are some limited exemptions in law:

“If a service provider provides single or separate sex services for women and men, or provides services differently to women and men, they should treat transsexual people according to the gender role in which they present. However, the Act does permit the service provider to provide a different service or exclude a person from the service, who is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or who has undergone, gender reassignment. This will only be lawful where the exclusion is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.” For example, it is currently legal for a group counselling session for female rape victims to exclude biological males if female clients would be not feel able to attend and participate in the group if they were present.

If this new legislation is passed and there are no exemptions allowing for transwomen (biological males) to be treated differently from biological women, there will be no way to protect vulnerable women who don't feel able to access rape services or medical services if they can't be sure of a female-only service.

This won't be like other rights conflicts (e.g. on sexual orientation versus religion) where test cases go to court and judgements are made because women won't exist as a separate protected group from transwomen.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
ButteredScone · 31/12/2017 01:21

It is all so depressing. How dare a HCP assume that he met the criteria of 'female' in the context of a smear test? It's mad.

ToadsforJustice · 31/12/2017 01:27

If you are a nurse with a fully functioning cervix, I may allow you to scrape my cervix. You are not a spaniel just because you have floppy ears and a fur coat.

RaindropsAndSparkles · 31/12/2017 01:31

Actually every patient should have the right to decline to be treated by a particular nurse, midwife or doctor if that hcp makes them feel uncomfortable or they are not confident in their care.

23 years ago I formally complained about a midwife and confirmed I wanted her nowhere near me again. She had lied about a procedure she was intending to carry out and was rude. The team leader asked me if it was cultural. No, she was rude and told lies and because of that I wanted her nowhere near me in labour.

BakedBeans47 · 31/12/2017 01:35

That’s so wrong. That poor woman.

I have had intimate examinations and procedures performed by males but it was a decision I willingly made and was comfortable with and there was a female present also. I am guessing that not only was this procedure performed by a male but without a female being present. Since when does the trans person’s rights to identify as a woman trump the patient’s right to have medical procedures performed according to their wishes and to ensure their comfort and dignity?

BakedBeans47 · 31/12/2017 01:36

Sorry should have said “comfort, dignity and safety”

RaindropsAndSparkles · 31/12/2017 01:36

And I meant to add if someone was kind, put me at ease and appeared competent I would not care what sex, race, religion or gender identity they had. My gynaecologist is a man. A very nice man. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if he started wearing a frock tbh. Same quals, same experience, same charming bedside manner.

BakedBeans47 · 31/12/2017 01:40

Actually the more I think about it my blood is boiling. That woman declined a procedure to save her life because she was uncomfortable with the sex of who had been provided to carry it out. It’s like saying her life is worth less than the right of a male to transition. Horrible.

NoMudNoLotus · 31/12/2017 01:48

Agree with @RaindropsAndSparkles ... i am nurse by trade now a ward manager and would not expect any of my ladies to have an intervention carried out by any HCP that they did not feel comfortable with. Whether they be male or female ( i do not tolerate prejudice regarding our staff and race though ) I always advocate that the women in our care are given a choice and that this is respected.

Ereshkigal · 31/12/2017 02:03

And I meant to add if someone was kind, put me at ease and appeared competent I would not care what sex, race, religion or gender identity they had.

Yes. But it's not the case for every woman. It's ok for women to have boundaries and recognise all MTF trans as male people, and express that you're not happy with being treated by a male HCP simply because they are a male. A decent, caring, boundary respecting HCP would surely understand that it's more about the patient's feelings rather than their own.

liminality · 31/12/2017 02:05

That woman declined a procedure to save her life because she was uncomfortable with the sex of who had been provided to carry it out. It’s like saying her life is worth less than the right of a male to transition. Horrible.

Nonsense. She declined the services of a particular nurse. She could and should have requested another, just as you can request another doctor if you are uncomfortable with one, or want a second opinion from a specialist.
I moved recently, and I had a very uncomfortable experience with the first doctor I saw at my new surgery. I went out to the reception and booked an appointment with another doctor immediately for the following week, who I like much better.
When I was younger, I had preliminary appointments with doctors before I get smears conducted, so that I could be comfortable with them if I necessary. (Less concerned these days who sees my bits - just get on with it really!)

Trans people have the right to transition, and the right to work in any job they are inclined to. Patients have the right to request different staff if for whatever reason they feel they are not receiving the services they need. There is absolutely nothing stopping that woman from getting a smear the following day by a different nurse.

The way MN paints trans people out to be the devil makes my blood boil. It literally does not affect your life, but you are all off your faces with fear and bigotry. The feminism threads are some of the most horrific things I have ever read. You all ought to be ashamed. I can only hope your own poor children never experience gender dysphoria or they will be destroyed by these toxic attitudes.

Ereshkigal · 31/12/2017 02:09

The feminism threads are some of the most horrific things I have ever read

Well you've obviously not seen much of the internet then, have you?

Ereshkigal · 31/12/2017 02:13

Please stop painting women's boundaries as a preference or whimsical choice. It's really quite offensive.

EmilyfromLondon · 31/12/2017 02:15

I've been in the presence of medical staff of the opposite sex. I just got on with it

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 31/12/2017 02:17

This really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone tbh. People on here have been predicting something like this would happen ever since this whole trans ideology kicked off but we were always told we were being bigoted, transphobic, overreacting, etc.

In fact I started a thread at the beginning of the year about the gender ID bill and I gave not being able to request HCP the same sex as you as one of the problems it would cause but I was also told I was bigoted and that it would never happen.

Yet here we are.

edwinbear · 31/12/2017 02:17

I'm fully fucking sick of all this trans bollocks. I had a male midwife, a male gynae fix my prolapse, but having been assaulted during my first smear test at the age of 16 (the male HP was prosecuted) I request a female nurse for something I still find traumatic. I expect a fully functional female when I request one to scrape my fanny.

NoMudNoLotus · 31/12/2017 02:17

Thats fine @EmilyfromLondon but patients should be given a choice about this .

EmilyfromLondon · 31/12/2017 02:19

Thats fine @EmilyfromLondon but patients should be given a choice about this .
In an emergency, you don't get the opportunity to have a choice

jaimelannistersgoldenhand · 31/12/2017 02:20

The feminism threads are some of the most horrific things I have ever read

You need to read what trans activists think about women, particularly lesbian women.

NoMudNoLotus · 31/12/2017 02:20

Well obviously in an emergency because its life or death and interventions are carried out in the best interests

EmilyfromLondon · 31/12/2017 02:23

Well obviously in an emergency because its life or death and interventions are carried out in the best interests
But I was practically naked - no bra, as I has an ECG stuck to me, and just laying there in my knickers while they sorted out my broken leg. With mainly men stood around. Is that acceptable?

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 31/12/2017 02:25

In an emergency, you don't get the opportunity to have a choice

A smear test is not an emergency.

EmilyfromLondon · 31/12/2017 02:26

A smear test is not an emergency.
Exactly

NoMudNoLotus · 31/12/2017 02:27

Did you request female staff ?

Presumably you had capacity to express your wishes ?

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 31/12/2017 02:27

Is that acceptable?

If you were okay with it, then yes.

I am a rape and sexual assault survivor and I find smear tests traumatic enough as it is. Do you find it acceptable for me to ask for a female nurse?

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 31/12/2017 02:29

I'm really not sure where you're going with this @EmilyfromLondon. If you accept that a smear is not an emergency then you must also accept that women have the right to decide if they want a woman to carry it out.