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Original poster

To think that women should be able to request a female doctor or nurse?

811 replies

Betti935 · 31/12/2017 01:15

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/the-female-nhs-nurse-i-asked-for-came-with-stubble-83rq9p0gg

Summary: A woman requested a female nurse to carry out her cervical smear test. When she arrived the nurse was clearly male (stubble, deep voice etc). When she questioned this, the nurse insisted that they were a woman because they were trans. The patient says she was made to feel like a bigot and in the end decided not to go ahead with the smear test.

Now in this case, the NHS Trust has apologised and said that the nurse did not handle the situation appropriately. However the government are planning to introduce into law the recommendations of the Women and Equalities Committee which include, not only allowing men to 'self-identify' as women without any medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria, but also to get rid of the exemptions currently in place.

Currently, while biological males can legally 'become' women (following a diagnosis of gender dysphoria - there is already no requirement to have any hormone treatment or surgery), there are some limited exemptions in law:

“If a service provider provides single or separate sex services for women and men, or provides services differently to women and men, they should treat transsexual people according to the gender role in which they present. However, the Act does permit the service provider to provide a different service or exclude a person from the service, who is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or who has undergone, gender reassignment. This will only be lawful where the exclusion is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.” For example, it is currently legal for a group counselling session for female rape victims to exclude biological males if female clients would be not feel able to attend and participate in the group if they were present.

If this new legislation is passed and there are no exemptions allowing for transwomen (biological males) to be treated differently from biological women, there will be no way to protect vulnerable women who don't feel able to access rape services or medical services if they can't be sure of a female-only service.

This won't be like other rights conflicts (e.g. on sexual orientation versus religion) where test cases go to court and judgements are made because women won't exist as a separate protected group from transwomen.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
YetAnotherSpartacus · 31/12/2017 08:28

Sparrows is being a GF and attempting to derail the thread, much as every other trans thread has been derailed lately with asinine and poorly defended assertions.

Lovesagin · 31/12/2017 08:29

Skaross you are a disgusting person.

alltheworld · 31/12/2017 08:30

Edwin. That happened to me too. Had a breast exam after seeing a male dr for something totally unrelated when I was a teenager. It had a massive impact on me.

RhythmStix · 31/12/2017 08:31

Well I am thankful that my dd was seen by a female Doctor- the surgery offered one immediately. Maybe you think the surgery was being discriminatory as well.

CosmicCanary · 31/12/2017 08:32

Skaross is proving the point though.

Women and girls who choose a female HCP are accused of discrimination. They are called names because their choice does not matter. They are forced to do something they do not want to do because of the fear they will be labelled.

Datun · 31/12/2017 08:32

I sincerely hope it doesn't get deleted.

As many people as possible need to be aware of exactly where woman stand in this. And why.

Skarossinkplunger

Are you going to answer my question?

Skarossinkplunger · 31/12/2017 08:35

No, I chose to ignore it because it’s ridiculous.

Datun · 31/12/2017 08:35

They were all done by a male
consultant because he was the best consultant available.

How do you know he was the best?

Is that not discriminatory towards the less able consultants?

You were basing your decision on a personal preference.

You used your knowledge to discriminate on the best basis to ensure an outcome that you wanted.

Skarossinkplunger · 31/12/2017 08:36

We know he was the best because my
mother is a healthcare professional and she did her research.

Datun · 31/12/2017 08:36

Skarossinkplunger

Ah. The old 'ignore a question in case it incriminates me' tactic.

That's the trouble with all this. As soon as logic is applied your argument falls apart.

Datun · 31/12/2017 08:37

Skarossinkplunger

So how come you're allowed to discriminate? Based on credentials.

RhythmStix · 31/12/2017 08:37

And for the record skaross - your post about having "repeated tests and repeated internal examinations at your daughter's age" sounds like a load of lies to me, some bollocks you invented to undermine my own child's rather unpleasant experience. Shame on you for belittling the illness and worries of a child for your own nasty point scoring.

bambambini · 31/12/2017 08:38

Why would they have a transwoman doing smears or at least explain or check with the women beforehand as they know many women want a woman for this kind of thing. Surely they knew this would eventually blow up.

Datun · 31/12/2017 08:39

Skarossinkplunger

You reserve the right to discriminate. If you weren't discriminating, you would have taken the first consultant who came up.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 31/12/2017 08:40

Oh I don't know. It just sounds like a bad porn plot to me.

Skarossinkplunger · 31/12/2017 08:41

Ok so now I’ve lied about what happened to me because it doesn’t fit with your picture.

I’m off, congrats you’ve hounded me out. Because I have a different opinion. Typical MN. Well done. I’m sure you will all feel very pleased with yourselves.

CosmicCanary · 31/12/2017 08:42

I am very pleased you are leaving.
Your vile view of how women should not be allowed a choice is one that should never be heard again.

mindutopia · 31/12/2017 08:42

Anyone can request a different provider, regardless of reason on the NHS. Now if there is no one available, you may need to re-schedule, but that's just how it is (like someone said, a smear isn't an emergency).

I routinely request female doctors or nurses for various things and it's never been an issue. The hospital has always had other staff available, so they just slot me in with that person to begin with or I wait until they're free. I've never had to re-schedule, but if a staffing issue prevented it, I happily would. This has nothing to do with gender, so stop making it about that. Loads of people take issue with one doctor or nurse or midwife and refuse their care all the time. It's a routine thing. You can't get upset though if you make a request and it can't be fulfilled. Sometimes other people's needs are more pressing and urgent than yours (that female doctor may in fact be dealing with someone else's real emergency and be unavailable for you). But no one can do anything without your consent and you can always re-schedule or wait until someone becomes available whose care you are happy with.

FrancisCrawford · 31/12/2017 08:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CaptainBrickbeard · 31/12/2017 08:43

Skaros, I think the huge impact of #MeToo has surely demonstrated that women being wary of unknown men is really not the same as fearing Muslims? Terrorists are far less common than sexual predators.

I was cared for post-birth by a transsexual nurse and I felt perfectly comfortable with her and really liked her. She was extremely respectful of boundaries and far more careful to ask consent for everything than some of the other nurses and midwives. It was the same with the male midwife at the birth centre - he was extremely clear on boundaries and a patient’s right to say no to anything. Neither of these individuals would have imposed themselves on any female patient who didn’t want their care: I can’t imagine either of them behaving like the nurse in the article and just asserting that they were going to perform a smear test. Both of them had women who chose not to be cared for by them. That is the way it should work and no girl or woman should ever be made to feel uncomfortable or that she is bigoted for making this choice.

bambambini · 31/12/2017 08:44

Bye bye then. Can’t say I’m sad to see you go!

Datun · 31/12/2017 08:44

I’m off, congrats you’ve hounded me out. Because I have a different opinion. Typical MN. Well done. I’m sure you will all feel very pleased with yourselves.

You can't back your opinion up. That's the problem.

You deserve every right to discriminate against a healthcare professional, as long as it's on your terms.

You can choose, willy nilly, as long as it serves your own interests.

But you enthusiastically deny that to anyone else.

It's egocentricity at its absolute worst.

MongerTruffle · 31/12/2017 08:45

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

April229 · 31/12/2017 08:45

Not being goady, but can I ask those who prefer a female to perform cervical smear or other intimate procedure what is the reason?

I’m not fussed either way, Drs and nurses see so many vaginas in the course their work it’s no different to them than and elbow, so curious about the difference for the patient. For the record I completely agree people should have the choice, just curious about what the choice is based on. If it’s the risk of a sexual assult, what if the female performing the smear is a leibien and the male equivalent is gay - would that change things?

RadioGaGoo · 31/12/2017 08:45

I think someone was looking for an excuse to flounce, rather than answer a perfectly reasonable question.