AIBU - Son with ASD hit his Grandad!

[Vixen884]

I don't post on here often but I'm an avid reader and now looking for advice as I am fizzing inside! This could be long to include relevant info so sorry in advance.

My son has Asperger's, he is 12 and is generally very well behaved and loving. He does have a temper when pushed or feeling over whelmed, we as a family recognise this and know how to avoid outburst etc Discipline is always a discussion on his behaviour, followed by a punishment like no computers etc.

So anyway recently he has not been wanting to stay with Grandparents (they go frequently to help with childcare during holidays etc) due to how they treat him, he says they favour his sisters and he's always getting into trouble....So for example if he says to his little sister ' She has no brain' as siblings do bicker! They will tell him he's stupid and he has no brain, instead of saying 'That's not nice, how do you think that makes your sister feel? etc'. He takes this very literally and it's been building up to a point where today he was apparently called stupid for the 3rd or 4th time over a few days and he has lashed out and hit his Grandad as he felt so frustrated. He is a big boy for 12 and incredibly strong when angry so I think he gave his Grandad a fright who is also a big guy and not a frail man in the slightest. I'm just going to add in here as well that his Grandad is a very jokey person and it probably sounds worse here than how its meant to come across, I think his aim is to make my son feel the way his sisters do by saying the same to him but it doesn't work for someone who takes things literally and not in the jokey/hidden message way.

I have talked it out with the kids and have come to the conclusion that the Grandparents are well out of order for how they are punishing him. My son has been told by us there will be a punishment for him hitting his Grandad and he needs to apologise as its not acceptable at all! But AIBU to be angry at the Grandparents for not taking the time to understand his Asperger's and adjusting their discipline methods? Today after my son hit his Grandad, a passing comment was made to my daughter about how her brother was going to get knocked out?!?! WTF I am so angry, I just want to know I am not being soft and unreasonable before I have this out with some already difficult to deal with inlaws?

Thanks

The GF is not showing him how it feels because he is unable to make the cognitive leap that if it upsets him to be called stupid then it must upset his sisters when he calls them stupid.

I know quite a few people who try to use this as a parenting technique, it rarely works even with a NT child. I had a friend whose toddler was a biter - she would bite him back to 'show him how it feels', it did not stop him biting it reinforced his view that biting was an appropriate way to show displeasure.

If it were as simple as just showing stuff to people with asd then it would be pretty easy to solve most of the difficulties they face.

Even if you say that for some people, in some situations this is a suitable strategy, it wouldn't be implemented this way. You'd expect it to be planned & discussed beforehand by all the adults involved in his care. Not one adult with little understanding of asd deciding to introduce a new strategy out of the blue.

My son has ASD. He also gets very angry at others saying unkind things. He's been told that's NO excuse for violence and introduced to techniques to help manage that.

However if your ds chooses to make comment to his sister like "you have no brains" he needs to learn that anybody can and will defend her. Same as if he said it to a peer, teacher, someone in a shop or colleague.

If he's upset because he takes it literally someone is saying he has no brains then he also literally means his sister has no brains - so is purposefully being unkind.

Do you excuse your DD or will you allow your ds to punch her brother when he says it to her?

And remember assault is assault - disability or not.

The OP has already said that hitting was out of character and her son doesn't hit his sisters. OP has also said that the sibling insults thing has been blown out of proportion and she doesn't generally have issues with this.

And remember assault is assault - disability or not.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Personally I think there is a difference between a child with a disability lashing out when under considerable stress to a child without a disability punching someone in anger.

I'm not excusing hitting and obviously we should endeavour to teach our children that violence is never ok. It's not so black and white though and a little more understanding is needed.

Legally you have to be at the criminal age of responsibility and understand right from wrong - this is at age 10 or 8 in scotland. Plenty of people with learning difficulties are prosecuted for crimes including murder. The basis legally of understanding right from wrong, has a very low bar. I don't think for one minute the police would be interested in prosecuting here. But legally I suspect the DS is guilty.

There is no point being angry at the grandparents at all, your DS is the one who has committed a criminal offence. ASD is not an excuse.

^^

ASD is not an excuse, it is a FACT!

OP YANBU and why do posters with no knowledge or experience of autism/ASD feel they can judge and criticise?

So a teenager punching a stranger, is likely to be prosecuted whether they are disabled or not.

No disability doesn't change the legal position.

You can certainly claim things such as diminished responsibility but you have to prove it exists.

The truth is that some people with asd won't ever learn to manage their emotions. That's why they have a carer whilst out in the community. They are there to help manage and support their charge. Some people with asd (or other disabilities) won't manage some environments so they don't experience them.

And no - it's not inclusion to force someone into a situation they can't handle just because 'they have a right to be there'.

My own ds can be violent. He often behaves inappropriately towards others and HATES it when they do it back. I don't expect NT people to take abuse from my son because their understanding is better - I make sure as a parent I support ds in situations I think he may struggle with, guide his behaviour and this also should happen happens at school as he has an EHCP.

I'm not saying I don't think the GF handled the situation badly or could have handled it better.

But the OP says when her ds says those things to her DD1 she doesn't really mind - but her ds minds it being said to him.

You shouldn't differentiate what you accept from people based on how others react.

The same way that I have to determine which children are bullying DS as they target his vulnerability from those who are just acting to him as they act to others and who are acting within socially acceptable boundaries - which ds can't always determine or manage.

I used to care for a strong teenage boy who had severe autism, non verbal and would grab at people's clothes and hair. When his parents took him out shopping, they had straps on his wheelchair to put his hands in. I know this was criticised by many, but they literally could not take him anywhere with other people otherwise. Strangers don't take too kindly to a 16 year old boy suddenly grabbing and pulling their hair or clothes. And there were no triggers the parents had ever identified, this is just what he did.

You shouldn't differentiate what you accept from people based on how others react.
But you're missing a basic fact of autism - we don't always grasp that similar situations ARE similar because to us they're not. To DS presumably he can't see that him calling DD names is the same as GF calling him names (and it's not, because an adult's interaction is a different level) because the situations in which it happened were different. So he can't apply his feelings to his sister.

He may not be able to understand his sister's feelings, but he can be taught that it is wrong.

Yes he can be taught it's wrong, but not by his GF calling him names.

His GF is wrong, but it sounds like he is trying to teach him that by showing how it feels.

There is an awful lot of 'You should teach the autism out of him' on this thread. Well, it is just not possible to do this, with the best will in the world. Can you teach someone not to have asthma? Or Allergies? Or Cancer?

No!

Well, Autism is also a diagnosed medical condition.

The OP sounds as though she is trying to help her DS to deal with it.

I do not believe for one moment that the DS is bullying the DD with no input from her at all. It sounds like equal squabbles, the same as I live with in my house day to day. The GPs are only noticing the DSs part in it, which is why he is saying it is unfair.

My DM would be the same, but it would be DD getting the blame and DS, the one doing most of the winding up, that would be the poor innocent victim in her eyes!

I do think I understand autism - Thankyou!

That is why it is mentioned to 'teach' through modelling and scaffolding. But because his sister doesn't 'mind' him saying it doesn't mean you excuse his reaction because he does.

Calling someone stupid is unacceptable. Some people will learn this at a young age, some older and some not at all. Doesn't mean you don't keep trying or modelling what is acceptable.

Therefore the household should have a rule that calling people stupid is not acceptable. Reinforcing the rule as necessary and appropriate.

Behaviour is always a form of communication. You teach 'better ways' of communicating. No one has ever said it'll take 1/2/3 goes. It may take 1000's.

Teaching others not to judge and how to manage someone's behaviour is also necessary. I've put a stop to some of the 'banter' from ds peers because it's designed to push his fragile buttons. It's done cruely and intentionally. I've also given ds consequences for mirroring such behaviour and also for holding others to high standards of behaviour that he doesn't hold himself account to.

I don't believe in thinking someone with a disability will never learn a certain skill. I like to believe everyone has a high capacity and just need adjustments to find their way. That doesn't mean I think everyone has equal ability or should be treated the same. Just we should always believe someone can communicate effectively and find the tools they need to do that and help them implement it.

The Dr may not complain because she's learnt there is no point complaining.
I never bothered complaining about my dbro because I always got "he has such a difficult time, you have to make allowances"
It did not mean that I didn't mind, although DM thought it did. I raised something that had really upset me at the time, and got the response " you didn't mind that though, you'd have said if you did". Actually I was saying that it really upset me at the time.

Yes that is true. But sometimes outsiders can see a certain dynamic that parents can be unaware of.

Or outsiders are judging the situation without having much idea about what is going on...

I see what you mean from that pov zzz. But I imagine that in some families siblings might be very good at keeping any problems to themselves. Not because they think the parents don't care, but because they know (or even think) there's no solution, so don't want to add to their parents already heavy load. I'm not saying that's always the case, but it does happen.

I also don't for a minute think all parents of dc with sn are immune from making extremely bad parenting choices or even being generally awful parents. I'm not talking about the everyday minor mistakes all parents make, let alone the minefield of sn and the additional difficulties and greater margin for imperfection it presents. But some parents are crap, and would be whether they had nt dc or dc with sn.

So whilst I'm not denying your experience, I don't think it's the full picture.

(I'm also not suggesting any of the above applies to op)

Or outsiders are judging the situation without having much idea about what is going on...
This ^^