Give presents back or not?

[Jibberoo]

Hi all I have a major dilemma that I need some advice on. I'm just going to give all details so please stick with it. Before Xmas we saw our inlaws for Xmas lunch and to exchange gifts. They drove down to us as they were staying with friends near by for a few days. Anyway they haven't seen DS for ages (1 day all year I think) and haven't spoken to him either. Over dinner at restaurant ds makes a joke at MI expense - it was rude but he had heard his dad and uncle calling her this name in jest and he thought it would be funny too (he's 8). I pulled him up on it and told him off, dinner continued. We all get home for coffee etc and PI state that they are leaving as MI feels insulted by DS (calling her rude name in jest and not hugging her when they came 1st). I tell ds to go apologise to MI, he goes up says sorry and tries to give her a hug to say sorry. She pushes him away and FI and MI state that they don't forgive ds as are leaving. I remind them that the reason he didn't run to them and hug them when he saw them was that they haven't really seen or spoken to him all year. Ds very upset as he honestly thought he was making a joke like other adults were and he didn't want to hurt MI.
Anyway they leave and leave the presents they brought for ds dh and me. I inform ds that he can't open any presents from them as they it's not appropriate.
Ds cries himself to sleep because he thinks he's been so bad that now gps don't love him.
I'm angry at him for being rude but then more for not accepting apology that was really meant. Come Xmas day no text or phone call to ds from gps and he's upset all over again.
Fast forward to today (we were away after that), I don't know what to do with presents left behind. Mine I'm definitely sending back. But do I stick to guns and send ds presents back to gps? More than anything I think that presents that aren't given with love mean nothing and shouldn't be opened. Ds isn't missing out on presents trust me so it's more of a principle. Thing is I don't want to punish ds but I don't want him thinking that it's ok to not speak to family as long as you give presents (ie gps don't speak to him but leave expensive presents).
So AIBU to send gps presents back with note to say that since they can't forgive ds then presents aren't necessary?

Advice much needed

Night @Jibberoo hope the morning brings some clarity

Stop enabling these people are you mad? protect your child from them, that's YOUR job. dont tell him they love him, thats a lie. Give him the present, chuck yours in the charity shop, never see them again.

He is 8. It was an honest mistake. They are pathetic.

Jibberoo very unfortunate situation, don't blame you being angry at all.

Your dh and his brother, or whoever this uncle is, have set your son a very bad example by using this name in front of ds.

Ds is only 8 so yes, you need to protect him. I'd pretty much agree with your A-C but I would change it slightly. Here would be mine.

A) don't send presents back as it's adding fuel to fire and will only underline to ds he did something wrong. Tell ds they love him even if they can't always show it correctly - agree totally
B) send my (and dh) presents back and tell them thank you but no thank you - I'd keep the presents, I'd certainly not waste my own money sending them back or fueling the animosity. Keep them in the garage and donate to charity next Christmas maybe.

C) leave things and don't try and contact PI but don't stop them contacting ds if they want - I'd not contact them again but I would encourage contact for ds to go through me, I'd definitely want to know what they were saying.

But those are just my thoughts. I am sorry for your husband.

The sound a night more and I think you handled it well.

A) don't send presents back as it's adding fuel to fire and will only underline to ds he did something wrong.
Yes to this.
Tell ds they love him even if they can't always show it correctly.
No, please don't do this.
Don't tell him anything relating to their feelings for him. This kind of talk can only confuse DS and put him in the same position as DH - trying to win proper expressions of love from them.

You can absolutely tell him that their response to this incident was rude and uncalled for, and that he should never follow their example.

While you're at it, you can point out that uncle and DH's name calling behind ILs' back is also rude and not to be emulated. DH and uncle should apologise to DS.

B) send my (and dh) presents back and tell them thank you but no thank you
Don't do this. Open and donate to a charity if you wish.

C) leave things and don't try and contact PI but don't stop them contacting ds if they want
Fine as far as it goes, but they will probably not contact him. You (and DH) need to be ready to step in and send them packing if they try to continue this fight with DS.

Btw, DH may hate his p but he also loves them and desperately wants them to love him too. It's too big a tale to get into now but it's not easy for him. Worst still I know we'll have to see them again next year.
I gather from the remark that uncle gets away with insulting them to their faces while DH desperately wants them to love him that they have a golden child/black sheep thing going on.

It seems to me they have now included DS as an extension of DH in the 'black sheep' column. This is why it is important not to tell DS they love him. They do not.

DS has already been punished enough and should get to open his presents. He should send a thank you to them, with no further apology. Don't make him grovel. It will only teach them that they can kick him with impunity.

If they choose to have no further contact with DS, tell him that is their loss, not his.

You should buy the book 'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

Let him have his present, for god's sake!

*Uncle and DH need to apologise to DS for not standing up for him and for not owning up to being the originators of the phrase DS repeated. Both of them should have told MIL this was their phrase, right there on the spot. They threw DS under the bus.

Omg! Total overreaction to a funny bit of cheek! In our house that would be the signal for "stinky old nanna" to jump up and chase the kid round the house to pin him down and tickle him or turn him upside down and pretend to spank his bum for the cheek!

I'm sure your child meant it in a joking way and not as an insult and as an adult she should have recognised that. The only thing your boy got wrong was misjudging his fucking grumpy and over sensitive audience.

Tbh they sound like hard work you don't need. Feel free to give back the gifts and if you feel bad about depriving your boy of them, carefully open them first (then rewrap) and buy them for DS again from you. It sounds like a great opportunity to finally go NC. I mean, DS hasn't seen them for more than a single day in a year? He's uncomfortable enough to these relative strangers to not give them a hug on first seeing them? Go NC and think nothing more of them.

Waikiki - I don't know if you are assuming that I am the Grandmother in this thread. I know that I am not. I do not fit the circumstances at all.

I take exception to you making a comment stating that anyone is sticky or old. You are not funny and its parents like you and the DH and Bil on this thread who create animosity in families. You could do with some manners

Horrible people. Bag back in the post along with a note saying you left those here. Just returning them in case you need them.

I would also have to write to them explain that their behaviour was unacceptable for all the reasons you outlined in your post. Finally I would explain that you were hoping that they could build a relationship with your son built through regular contact, shared experiences and love. If they aren’t game for that fuck them. Or perhaps fuck them anyway.

Just a quick question thought...why tell your son that they love him when it will be obvious to him that they don’t. You don’t love people because you are related to them!

Stillme1, the issue was that the MIL took it out on her DGS who went over to apologise and wanting a hug. All he'd done was copy the adults, who had possibly pushed a joke too far. But why did she laugh when her DS said it but go ape when her DGS said it? It really hurt an 8 year old boy, and that wasn't right.

As I understand it, she was also offended that he didn't want a hug. Children shouldn't be forced to give hugs, and he hadn't even seen them for a year so that's hardly surprising.

So whilst I understand why she might have taken umbrage at the joke, the boy meant no harm and actually tried to put it right. She is the grown up.

OP, I think you shouldn't return his presents, as it will feel to your DS that he's being punished again.

Lizzie = I do not like the way either the OP or her DH handled this. DCs are forever repeating things so great care has to be taken not to say things you would not want repeated.
IMO the DGS and the DGM are the innocent parties here. The DH and BIL were wrong to allow DS to hear bad and nasty comment about DGM. OP did not acquit herself well either.
The DS is a vulnerable child and the DGM could be elderly and ill, we do not know, but as a GM she could be seen as vulnerable.
IT seems to me that OP DH and BIL are at fault. The DGM may already be hurt by them. While I do not condone that DGM did not accept the apology with a cuddle from DGS I think the damage is being done by OP DH and BIL and the DGS and DGM are both hurt and unhappy by the comments the child repeated.

Oh my days 8 year old boy makes a joke calling someone stinky - shock horror.

Keep the presents tell DS he was rude and wrong to call her it and that's a lesson for him to learn but he handled it well by apologising immediately and trying to make it up with mil and that's all you can ask of him.

I understand you want to facilitate a relationship with gps and there is that obligation there and desire for family but you also have a duty to protect your son. You've tried to maintain a relationship, it hasn't worked and they have hurt your son - don't let them do it again.

If they have treated your dh their own son badly they'll do the same to your DS. Selfish self absorbed wankers. She'll be sat round her cauldron with her flying monkeys justifying her behaviour, telling herself she's hard done by.

Do yourself a favour & wash your hands of the both of them.

Despicable behaviour, if she can't cope with being called a stinky old nana by an 8 year old id hate to see her if anything serious ever happened!!!

Just echoing please do not be telling your son that they love him. It's really inappropriate and confusing. Their behaviour is not loving at all. I would send anything back. Please think about some help for yourself regarding why your notions about family have been more important than your H's wish to keep his toxic family away. That's not intended to be bitchy. I think you handled it pretty well at the time. I don't think I could have been so even-handed.

Sending back presents is always wanky posturing that makes a difficult situation worse. Doing it on behalf of a child is even more so.

As I see it, there is a massive back story going back many years, the DH doesn't want to be in contact with them, it's the OP who has been pushing it.

And what do you make of the fact that the DGM laughed at the joke when her DS made it yet went ape when her DGS did? You've avoided that as it doesn't fit with the picture you're painting of poor DGM.

And taking offence at her DGS not wanting a hug? That's just petulant.

Agree with mathanxiety that Uncle and DH need to apologise to DS for not standing up for him. They should have said at the time "That's our fault for using that term in front of ds."

If he was aware of the presents, had seen them and the they had been left purposely for him. I think it was quite cruel to not give them to him. No wonder he was upset, as he's now not allowed to open their presents. I would give them to him and explain that you were being silly and they are for him, GD and GM wanted him to have them.

Can I ask what the name was? Maybe it wasn't the fact that your child called her it. But that you all laugh indoors calling her it??

They certainly shouldn't have behaved like that and I'm sorry you went through that. Don't with hold presents for 'principles' at the cost of your son in future though if he's aware of them.

I must admit being called that by a child who I hadn't spent much time with would have hurt me to the quick. It is one thing to mess around with the people you love and be called such a thing when it is obviously a joke and another thing to be called that by a grandchild you hardly know.

Yes poor grandmother doesnt know her grandson because she doesnt bother with him....
Nope have no sympathy for her which ever way people flip it shes completely over reacted it makes you wonder how some people have ever had kids.

What utterly vile people, these ILs have behaved appallingly.

I think you should carefully slit open the tape on the gift you your DS to establish what it is, order a replacement identical thing yourself (unless it's something he wouldn't enjoy in which case spend a similar amount on something good) then reseal it and send the lot back.

I know DS will have just had plenty of gifts within the last week but an 8 yo is not mature enough to be able to think that he has had enough Christmas presents and won't miss out on the thing from vile nana. He should not be punished by losing out on a gift but it is the right thing to do to send it all back. He should know that the item from nana is going back and that this us a replacement from you because he didn't deserve to lose out because of the IL's horrible attitude.

Then go NC unless they actually want to apologise to DS for this atrocious behaviour. Do not see them next year.

Well, what a stinky old nanna. Your ds is very perceptive.

I would add, please don't get DS to initiate any contact with them. Putting him on the phone or getting him to write a letter is just making him vulnerable to more rejection for something everyone agrees was not a big deal.

If it were me, I would be tempted to explain to DS that her behaviour was bad and that just because she is the grown up she isn't always right and call her stinky nanna.

This is an adult problem and he shouldn't have to worry about it.

It is the adults that have behaved badly.
your dh and his db for calling the nana names and the MIL for being so unreasonable and horrible to an 8 year old.
for his sake, why cant you ring them, wish them a happy christmas and new year, and thank them for the presents. Grin and bear it op. Be the reasonable one here

It sounds to me as if your mil was upset by her adult sons for the jokes at her expense but felt unable to express this. Yet when your ds said something, being only a child, she gave herself permission to really let rip all of her pent up anger and rage. On him. A child. How inappropriate.

As a pp stated, your dh is the scapegoat and bil the golden child and your ds is scapegoat by extension.

She was unable to accept his apology as she was in narcissistic rage. That is to say she felt her whole sense of being at risk of being shattered so she went off and there was no return until she felt your ds was sufficiently admonished. Perhaps he still hasn’t been sufficiently admonished and she may yet continue this rage the next time your ds sees her through pa remarks. www.livestrong.com/article/103707-causes-narcissistic-rage/
www.sott.net/article/153745-Hurting-you-isnt-something-narcissists-do-by-accident

I’ve had this with my mother. I stood up to her and told her in no uncertain terms that access to my dd is a privilege, not a right. Your dh also needs to stand up to his parents and tell them their behaviour is highly unacceptable if they bring your ds’s behaviour up in conversation again. Either ask them to leave, put the phone down or leave yourselves.

My dd (9) is an only child. She desperately wants more family. We tried for for years and years to have a relationship with my brother and his wife. We have been nc since earlier in the year as dd and I are both petrified of them, especially my brother, who is violent. She has psychopathic traits.

My mother is the archetypal, matriarchal, misogynistic narcissist and my brother is the golden child. She doesn’t want accept the nc situation and blames me for my brother’s violence. My fil has, I strongly believe, undiagnosed SN. He doesn’t bother much about dd because he doesn’t know how. Dh is an only. From both sides of immediate family, we therefore don’t have one uncomplicated relationship. We are pretty much on our own.

I am glad you have decided to let him keep the present.

Your ds owes no apology. It is rather the other way round. Under the circumstances, I would think long and hard about sending thank you note as it will be seen as another sign of appeasement.

Would your dh call them instead and feign concern for her as she was so disproportionately angry the last time you saw her? Or would you rather leave all contact. If he does call her, he can also say your ds appreciated the present and leave it at that.

I have taught dd about tall children. That is people wearing adult bodies, who haven’t yet grown up. Adults should be loving and caring. They should be considerate of children. Tall children aren’t. Because their mummies and daddies didn’t teach them lots of things they needed to know about being grown ups therefore they act in mean ways.