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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be fuming with my controlling BIL?

238 replies

LaurieF · 29/12/2017 17:48

Sorry this may be a long one but don't want to drop feed!

DSIL AND DBIL have no kids of their own. They have always done lots with our kids, cinema trips, days out, weeks away etc. strange thing is that everything has to be a massive surprise and we are never allowed to tell the kids where they are taking them. I once told them by accident as I didn't realise it was meant to be a secret. BIL kicked off saying I spoilt the night etc.

Fast forward to last Friday and the kids let slip that BIL had told them what their big Xmas pressie was. I wasn't too happy. They were due to take them to the cinema (as a surprise of course) Friday night. When they arrived to pick them up I asked BIL if he has told them about their present. He went pretty nuclear, hurt that I would think that etc. I've had the same story from.both kids in separate rooms so know they aren't lying. He then turned round to kids told then he had booked cinema tickets and wouldn't be taking them anywhere, shouted at them, and walked out. DD (8) sobbed for an hour, DS (13) sat in his room and wouldn't come out.

Xmas day they usually come to us for presents. DH got a phone call at 10am telling him they weren't coming but he was invited to go to them for the morning as long as "she" ie me... wasn't coming too. Both kids refused to go without me so we again invited them to us. DSIL came alone and left in tears as BIL had said he wasnt willing to ever see his neice and nephew ever again.

So now MIL also hates me because she has only heard his side of this, DH has asked me not to bring it up with his mum again because she will get upset, DSIL has no chance to see the kids and I am the complete villain of the piece

AIBU to be absolutely fuming still???

And a little thankyou to anyone who read the whole essay!!!

OP posts:
Original poster
LaurieF · 29/12/2017 23:37

@jassmells they just never wanted their own kids. As far as we are aware they have never tried, not a case of not being able to or anything like that.

We won't be letting them take them on holiday, or anywhere to be honest on their own again. I'm not even sure if the kids would want them to with how they feel at the moment but I would certainly not trust him with them.

OP posts:
ChasedByBees · 29/12/2017 23:56

I think even if the children change their minds, stay firm and don't let them spend time alone with them. This could easily happen again and you need to protect your children from it.

Oywotchadoin · 30/12/2017 00:01

I’d monitor their messages and social media very carefully.

This rang huge alarm bells for me too, grooming and narcissism and then some sort of back story with your SIL. I wondered if he is using the children to wound her, or test her loyalty?

You mentioned he has kept secrets from your SIL too, what was that about and how did she react?

Oywotchadoin · 30/12/2017 00:04

From nspcc

To be fuming with my controlling BIL?
GreenTulips · 30/12/2017 00:08

BIL will have pushed the message to MIL about what a great uncle he is.... paying for trips, holidays, fan gifts and how ungrateful you've been towards his generosity by questioning him.

Won't be too hard a story for MIL to believe .... he'll leave out the upsetting parts, because he's gathering his crowd around him for protection making you look the bad guys ..... quite scripted

ButteredScone · 30/12/2017 00:29

Just a thought but it would probably be better if your DH put forward ‘our side’ of the story (not ‘my side’).

It would be a strange MIL/parent who didn’T understand how upset you would be about the present being leaked. I’d be livid.

Gemini69 · 30/12/2017 00:40

Oywotchadoin

good lord.. that's practically text book to this Thread ..

stiffstink · 30/12/2017 00:42

OP your DH's attitude stinks- was he happy to go to Christmas dinner without you? Is he happy to have this all blow over?

Why?!

dontpokethebear · 30/12/2017 08:05

I'd also be very aware that he's just given your kids one hell of a lesson in how severe the punishment is for tattling to mum and dad even about something so minor.

Another agreeing with this.

I have only just caught up. I'm pleased to see that you have acknowledged that this is a major issue OP. What does your dh think about the secret keeping?

Cheby · 30/12/2017 08:06

This is pretty scary reading. Is your DH on board with BIL never having the kids again?

I don’t usually suggest this but this might be one of those times when your DH reading this thread might be useful. Sometimes it’s the shock of how other people see the situation that can make you realise how abnormal someone’s behaviour is.

Whoopsiveovershared · 30/12/2017 08:53

This feels like everyone is trying to scare the OP. Agreed, BIL sounds like someone to avoid, but all this talk of grooming is OTT. As far as I can see, the secrets were kept from the children, i.e. surprise trips out, not secrets with the children kept from their parents. The only secret he had with the children was that he let it slip about the presents.

He is no angel, and I agree that the OP and her DC should steer well clear of him, but one secret does not mean he is grooming them.
Please dial back your witch hunt.

Takeoutyourhen · 30/12/2017 09:31

I agree with GreenTulips.
As I have said before, even though they do the most ridiculous things you'd assume they are not the full shilling they usually are very sharp and calculating.

wednesdayswench · 30/12/2017 09:39

BIL sounds like a controlling bully, not a great role model for your DC. Very good idea to keep your distance from him and keep your DC away.

Why did he know what they were getting for Christmas anyway? He sounds far too informed and involved....keep him at arms length.

Original poster
LaurieF · 30/12/2017 09:58

@wednesdayswench They had asked what to buy for Christmas and we had said games for the console.

OP posts:
OnTheRise · 30/12/2017 10:10

This feels like everyone is trying to scare the OP. Agreed, BIL sounds like someone to avoid, but all this talk of grooming is OTT. As far as I can see, the secrets were kept from the children, i.e. surprise trips out, not secrets with the children kept from their parents. The only secret he had with the children was that he let it slip about the presents.

I don't think the grooming talk is OTT at all. But then I've suffered from the consequences of grooming, and I've seen it in action too.

I wonder if the polarisation of views here is because reasonable people who have lived happy lives assume that most people are good, while people who have lived through abuse recognise how it starts, often in plain sight.

gingergenius · 30/12/2017 11:27

I wonder if the polarisation of views here is because reasonable people who have lived happy lives assume that most people are good, while people who have lived through abuse recognise how it starts, often in plain sight.

^^this

ProfYaffle · 30/12/2017 11:33

"I wonder if the polarisation of views here is because reasonable people who have lived happy lives assume that most people are good, while people who have lived through abuse recognise how it starts, often in plain sight."

Yy. Sadly we have experience of an abuser in the extended family, they certainly do hide in plain sight. Since we uncovered it, it's shocking how many other people have similar experiences, I feel like I was living in a bubble of ignorance before.

It's hard to stress enough how important it is that dc can talk to their parents about anything and know they'll be supported/believed.

LazyDailyMailJournos · 30/12/2017 11:48

I'm an auntie who likes spoiling my nieces and nephews because I have no DC of my own (never wanted them). Your BIL is so far over the line it's not even a distant spot on the horizon. I ring my sister and ask her what the kids want/need for Xmas and birthdays and I go by that. I take them out for treats and activities but both her and my BIL know what I am doing and where. I can't even begin to understand why on earth things like this would need to be kept secret - it's unnecessary and it's also bloody inappropriate. They may be my nieces and nephews but sis and BIL are their parents!

Agree that cutting off BIL is wise. The secrecy and extreme reactions are very unhealthy and damaging for the kids.

lalalalyra · 30/12/2017 11:48

Sounds like you are doing great @laurieF - just keep in mind talking to your DD that bad things don't always seem bad to children. And the children will be incredibly conflicted right now - their uncle behaved badly and hurt them, but they love him and will be missing him. So, they are unlikely to quickly betray any confidences they've been asked/told to kept. Especially as they may have a feeling of this being their fault - if they hadn't slipped to you that he'd told them about the present none of this would have happened. they're probably chosing their words very carefully right now and they won't want anymore trouble.

To give you a bit of context - a social worker once asked me if my Dad had ever done anything 'bad' to me. I said no. I had no idea what his violence was 'bad'. He had told me (repeatedly) that it wasn't. That SW only got the information through more carefully worded questions.

I hope your DH gets his head out of the sand and starts sticking up for you and for your children.

AirandMungBeans · 30/12/2017 15:41

Whoops, as a designated safeguarding officer within a nursery I do not think suggestions of grooming are OTT at all. I don't wish to scare the OP, it I have learnt enough about grooming behaviours to be concerned. I also have a friend who experienced a similar situation, with a trusted family friend. She found out when her daughter was an adult that this man had abused her for years.

Predators often groom those around their intended victim first, in this case SIL, OP, her DH and MIL. They create a position of trust, gaining allies, then gradually normalise behaviour they wish to use to control their victim. It sounds to me that this is what BIL is doing, he has normalised secret keeping with OP and her DH, then tested the children. His extreme reaction to their feeling their mum was a warning to them not to defy him again. He has gotten MIL on side to enable her to smooth things over and minimise the gravity of the situation (as she doesn't realise it herself) giving him the opportunity to resume contact with the children, only this time they will be too scared to tell mum anything. OP I really hope that I'm wrong, you are handling the situation fabulously, just please keep him away from your DC.

Gemini69 · 30/12/2017 15:47

I wonder if the polarisation of views here is because reasonable people who have lived happy lives assume that most people are good, while people who have lived through abuse recognise how it starts, often in plain sight

Correct Flowers

Greensleeves · 30/12/2017 15:53

Who the fuck does he think he is?

He's a massive egomaniac. The "surprises" are all about control, pure and simple. Lots of families have one of these wannabe-puppetmaster personalities, he enjoys setting up scenarios and watching them play out the way he's designed them, with everyone reacting as they are supposed to and him sitting in the middle pulling the strings. Your dh needs to grow a backbone and stand up to his family, including his mother. I wouldn't have this joker anywhere near my kids in future. Tough shit if it upsets MIL or anyone else. Ugh.

dontpokethebear · 30/12/2017 16:43

What airandmungbeans said.

littletinyme1 · 30/12/2017 17:06

Whoops is wrong. Whilst there may be no evidence of any kind of abuse currently, the pattern of secret keeping is extremely worrying. He is creating a culture of acceptance around secrets throughout the family. This is grooming behaviour. I would never allow my child out of my sight unless i knew where he was going and for how long, because he is, you know, MY child.
You have responded so sensibly to all of these scary suggestions OP. Well done because you are showing you can keep your children safe.

Two things now...1. Is your husband able to do the same? If he isn't, then you will need to make sure you do it until your children are able to do it for themselves by making wise decisions. 2. This one is a bit more difficult OP..how was this man able to hold such sway over you, to the extent of you prioritising his wishes for your children over your own. You have always felt uncomfortable, why did you ignore this? I don'task this question to blame you, but to encourage you to be more aware in the future. Our vigilance as parents, our ability to trust our instincts and act in the interests of our children is what keeps them safe. There isn't always danger everywhere, but there is always danger somewhere.

pallisers · 30/12/2017 17:09

I wonder if the polarisation of views here is because reasonable people who have lived happy lives assume that most people are good, while people who have lived through abuse recognise how it starts, often in plain sight.

So true. I was that reasonable person once. I wish I had been more distrustful.