To ask what you learned from experiencing poverty?

[tucsontutu]

I am regular poster but nc for this. Reading several threads on mn, I realize how shockingly common it is to experience financial hardships at some point in life. That got me thinking, as I was lucky enough (so far) to never have experienced that. I am not and never was a millionaire, but I definitely never had to worry about essentials like food or heating. I realize how fortunate that is. I wonder if I would be different if I had experienced poverty/ financial hardship at some point in life.

So I am wondering what stays with people after they went through poverty. If you went through financial hardship and then recovered, do you think you would be different if you never experienced that time of difficulty?

Do you find that the people you know that have always been financially comfortable think differently from those who had to fight for their material comfort? Do they have a different approach to money?

Thank you for your comments!

What PurpleSheep said.

I've learned that hardship and poverty grind you down to the point where there's such a deficit of dignity, all you have left is either kindness or resentment towards others. Pick one.

I was kind before being poor but really suffering and struggling made me value the love of those who didn't turn away from me. It made me more tolerant of people and patient towards even those who would have nothing to do with me when I had little in the way of things to offer. I had kindness to offer when there was nothing left.

I'll go to the ends of the earth, give you the shirt off my back, be there in a person's hour of need. Kindness became my antidote. And now that I am at the other side of poverty, I can actually be proactive with my kindness and really get my boots muddy helping out. That's a superb feeling.

Of course the system is broken.
The NMW is far too low and housing costs are too high.
If someone is better off on benefits than working FT on NMW its not that the benefits are too generous ffs.

Its more acceptable to call the poor lazy than it is to call the rich greedy

I'm not sure about the greedy quote MrsDV. My in laws who were very poor as children are very greedy imo. Counting food, not sharing, always on the lookout for something for nothing. Their dd's expect to be be run round after not even bothering to offer with washing up Tec. I've often seen the trait in others too. IMO better off people give and share much more freely.

Poverty ... I'm reminded of not having enough cash for tampons, things for school, clubs etc, as a child and well generally just appearing to be less GOOD / WORTHY than those families with money.

Sometime poverty goes hand in hand with disorganisation in families such as ours. I am pretty controlling of life now I'm an adult and I can make sure we won't be eating rice and beans for months.

I'm now a bit obsessed with saving money, pensions.

I know the value a stable childhood brings - but that's not just about money, but it's linked to money - in my case anyway.

I know that whilst money doesn't bring you happiness it does bring you a certain peace of mind that you're not CONSTANTLY worrying how to pay the bills/ afford to get to work to pay the bills in the first place.

I'm more aware of others experiencing poverty as a result of having lived through it - and will if possible make subtle contributions in anyway I can, to make others' lives easier. I know the value of a treat when you're totally depressed from being penniless.

I hate wasting anything!

Nixnjj - PM me please

I remember, shortly after getting married and moving into our own home, having a friend come over to visit and proudly showing her the bathroom cabinet which had various toothpastes, soap, deodorants, toilet paper, tissues and sanitary items. And she gave me a kind of "so what" look and I realised she had no idea what it was like to not have one of those items, never mind several of each.

I still hoard food in tins and packets because I remember what it was like to have empty cupboards. My husband goes through and clears out the out of date stuff and I can't describe the feeling of panic when I open them up and find half the stuff is gone.

Saturday morning weren't spent watching cartoons, they were spend listening for the rent man/milk man/insurance man so we could lie on the floor and pretend no one was home.

No toilet paper, just newspapers. We couldn't even afford the newspaper, we waited till a neighbour read his and handed it in for my dad to read.

Not enough sanitary towels, so had to wear them till they could not contain anymore.

Only allowed to bath once a week. Clothes only washed on a Saturday afternoon. We were grubby and smelly and kids are cruel.

Heat in the livingroom only all year round. I put as many layers on to go to bed as I did to go out in the snow.

Never having anything fashionable, only cheap clothes from the cheapest shop in town. Getting hand-me-downs from the neighbours. You haven't lived till you're wearing someone else's old knickers, and you're glad to have them because the elastic still works.

You can't have friends over. You don't want them to know there's no heat, food, toilet paper.

Ratty old furniture, threadbare carpets, peeling wallpaper, lino full of burn holes, mould, damp, the smell of the lard our food was cooked in along with cigarette smoke (because there was money for drink and smokes). Poor has a smell.

I grew up poor with affluent relatives, including my wonderful grandmother who paid for me and my brothers to go to private prep schools. I was therefore surrounded by people who were affluent and everyone I knew had wealth.

I learnt to do without. I learnt to question how badly I wanted something and the difference between want and need.

I didn’t learn how to save or budget sensibly when I actually had more money than I needed. I learnt that later (too late, as it happens, but that’s because disabilty descended on me and have not been able to work).

Living in poverty as a child erodes self esteem and takes away opportunities and choices. A constant sense of shame, not feeling good enough and a visceral fear of circumstances worsening. Always feeling cold and hungry, hardly any clothes, no haircuts, shoes that don't fit properly, never inviting anyone home, no extra curricular activities, no holidays.
Poverty for me has meant that reaching my full potential never happened, however I'm still working on that. Despite being academically able I left school as soon as I was could as I desperately needed to earn money.
Poverty grinds you down, always feel like you're on the outside looking in, don't think it ever truly leaves you.
As others have said, it's disgraceful that people in employment need to claim benefits to survive. The NMW is far too low.

*Fear.

When an envelope from the DWP drops through the door I feel physically sick. I assume fight or flight behaviours as it took four years, a support worker and every last ounce of self esteem I had to get the state to admit that they finally agreed with my specialists, GP and surgical teams that I am unfit for work*

Ditto

Dw is facing a tribunal now because the assessor took one point off her, stating that she obviously has no problems with communication as she laughed appropriately at the assessment.

Apparently she is qualified to state that a woman with a diagnosis of autism has no problems with communication at all.

I was present at the assessment. The assessor laughed at my dw when I was describing how she struggles in the kitchen. Dw often imitates laughter when she’s anxious as she learnt to copy when she was younger to ‘fit in’.

It has ruined Christmas as that payment is what keeps our heads just above the line.

Dw has been crying very often since and researching whether life insurance pays out for suicides as she feels she is dragging me and the dc down (I saw the history on the pc)

I’ve booked her in to see the gp but she has been in this place before. She is unable to work and I care for her and disabled dc. She genuinely feels we would be better off if she died, as she can’t earn money.

And I’d still say we aren’t that bad off financially compared to some, we manage the bills most months.

I was in a well paid job before having to give up work and have certainly had my eyes opened in the last few years.

What I learned: to be grateful for what I have and to be as charitable as I can be. My family had a spell in a homeless shelter at one point. It was challenging but I'm a firm believer in learning from tough times.

The difference I notice between me and DH is that I am almost obsessive with managing our finances, whereas DH has always just ignored them. It's not that he is a big spender, but he just assumes money will be there when he needs it. I am constantly surprised when we don't run out of money in the bank and get incredibly anxious if I think we are over spending.

The thing I have learnt from growing up is that it is not always the big things that really upset children. I now look back and am shocked at the fact we lived in the late '80s in a drafty, Victorian semi with no central heating and for a while an outside toilet. At the time that didn't really seem a big issue in an odd of way, even when we had ice on the inside of the windows. I realised we were poor when my parents couldn't afford to buy me new text books for school and i had to take in my older sisters. I remember coming home in tears because the teacher had pulled me up on it being out of date. This experience has given me different priorities to a lot of people I know.

It taught me never to let myself get in that position again. I had a shit childhood, there was a lock on the kitchen door, we never had clothing or warm coats and I was always cold or hungry. My school uniform had holes in that I desperately tried to sew up using needles and thread nicked from the dt room at school.

It's interesting to see how childhood poverty has made some people frugal. I now have lots of nice things, I treat myself to extravagant stuff all the time - it makes me happy. I remember going to Harvey Nichols as a teenager and being flabbergasted that people actually had the money to buy any thing in there. It's still the place I head to for comfort- in my head because I've made it I can get what I want from there. I still hoard clothes and makeup items. I hate it if the fridge is empty and I'll even catch myself loading up my trolley with unnecessarily large amounts of reduced food from time to time.

I've been put off having dc as I'm afraid that I might go down the route of my mother. I'm scared that if it goes tits up I'll have to put my dc through that. It's a hard one to let go of. I still take on the role of protector towards my younger siblings. We're all adults now but I try and shield them subconsciously - a sibling recently moved into a home and had a child and I showered them with gifts. My partner had to tell me I was doing too much. I just wanted to protect them from feeling like they didn't have enough...

My mother had one feckless/abusive/workshy partner after another and our family money went on them. Even though I'm financially independent, I'd never consider a partner who didn't have ambition and high earning potential. I'm not a gold digger, I've just lived through the consequences of having a non earning man in the house.

To avoid poverty I work hard. I have a good job, I'm well paid. But I also have a side business, make investments and ensure that I have several sources of income.

This is a really interesting thread. It's made me think about how my childhood has shaped the adult me.

@ThePurpleSheep

Like it or not, that's my reality. And I'm grateful that the benefits system is (too) generous.
On job seekers allowance, I dont pay council tax, Im shared ownership so recieved housing benefit for the rent AND also mortgage interest payments. I get child tax credits, child benefit, kids get free nursery places and one gets pupil premium. I dont claim free school meals/pupil premium for the primary age child (because as i child at school their was a stigma attached, even tho i know it doesnt exist now, i just cant shake it enough to claim it). I've had my dental work done for free and i still have nhs prescription exemption for myself and husbands monthly prescriptions.

(The irony is my hand was forced when my maternity allowance application was refused. I'd not have qualified for mortgage interest payments on that route. So ended up with more by going jsa, which wasnt my first choice.)

How is that system not generous?
How is that benefits bashing? I am on benefits, im not bashing myself or others. Im just saying having been on both ends the system is messed up, for sure.

To bridge the gap between my benefits and old earnings I do now have debts/loans where I didnt previously.
Alot of the lifestyle we have I earnt from before as a high earner (ie luxury house) but generous benefits has enabled it to be maintained.

At the same time, it's not glamourous and I apply mild stigmas to myself where I needn't. Its me I know, but I find parts of the process very 'cap in hand' and grinding. But i apply that solely to myself personally, i dont have that view of all benefits claimants. I don't enjoy going to sign on in one week, then sitting in a work programme (pointless) appointment the following week - so that I can get my jsa, i find it belittling honestly, having to explain myself.

I has hit by the benefits cap. My housing benefits reduced to ....50p a week. I felt belittled. That they were giving me 50p! 50p! Then was told it was so i stayed on their system. I could apply for discretionary payments that way.

That is a generous system to my mind. And it supported me very well.
But no I dont think I should get my lifestyle largely maintained via benefits as my source of income. When i know others work all hours.

I hit a point that recounting my weekly tale of woe to got too much. A while after the benefits cap, I ended my claim to focus on my health and sorting out my life and kids.
The work programme then said when i reclaimed...."i guess you took school summer holidays off job seeking to spend summer on the kids". Belittling! No I told her and recorded on universal jobsmatch login it was for the purpose of sorting my mental and physical health.

I am due to end my claim soon. Because of employment. Guess when I found the job....when I'd taken myself OFF jsa. The system didnt help me. I think for some it traps them in the cycle if workless poverty. You reach the point where youre better off on generous benefits at home than working for minimum wage.
When i end my claim I will again not explain why - the reason being, the work programme im in would get an additional payment for getting me into work. When the reality is I found that job during the period i ended my claim.

I'll be back on 40% tax because I'm a high earner. So i will focus on clearing some of the debt i have, but my lifestyle on a generous salary will largely be the same as my lifestyle on benefits! So the system for me is generous.
Even as a high earner my kids retain their free nursery funding (ive checked with local early years dept. The reasoning is that having been deprived kids for a leriod theyre deemed as still at risk of under achievement. It also cost more to reassess parental income termly than it does to just allow the place to continue. Lastly they said its not fair to settle a child in nursery then remove the place because their parent returns to work.)

So, you can disagree but you dont know my reality to say im falsely claiming the system is (too) generous.

The NMW is far too low yes, and yet employers still bleat about it

I've yet to meet a poor employer. They may not be rich, but they certainly don't live in poverty.

I never have, either, although we weren't well off when I was a small child as my father had bouts of ill health and unemployment, so a lot of my clothes came from jumble sales. But I always had enough to eat. My mum made a lot of sacrifices for me. My father got a job when I was 7 and remained in employment until he retired after that, but those very early years were hard and I think there were bailiffs at the door on occasion. It certainly made my mum very good at managing her money.

I have never been in that sort of situation as an adult, but both my husband and I have experienced redundancy, and so I can relate to a bit of the hoarding mentality some PPs have mentioned - not so much with food but in a slightly different context - eg my son is going on a school trip in July and I inadvertently paid the balance before I needed to. I was a bit annoyed at first but then I thought "well at least if I lose my job the trip is paid for and he can still go". I always pay for things right away - I hate any kind of debt, and can relate to the comment further up about not liking debit cards because it doesn't show up on your statement for 2-3 days - I dislike credit cards even more.

It's very sad that people genuinely think they are better because they have money.

If someone is better off on benefits than working FT on NMW its not that the benefits are too generous ffs.

Comparatively it's generous, for me to have been home with my kids not working full time. And getting as £high amounts as an earnt income.
I honestly think it would be wrong for me to not appreciate how much I've been provided, calling it anything but 'generous' support would be ungrateful on my part imo.

My upbringing was more poverty than abject poverty but it was noticeable the things we didn’t have like a phone, colour tv, car, holidays. What caused me stress though were school related things like having to queue up every day for my ticket for a free school meal, often not having the correct uniform at my strict school no,question of ever doing school trips or exchanges.

My answer was to start cleaning, babysitting paper round etc from age 13 and save up. By the time I left home Mum had remarried and a lot of things like central heating, phone, washing machine had appeared as a result. Like a PP I never wanted Children because I saw our poor ness as a direct result of Mum being a single parent

The effect of all this has been huge in spite of 25 years of financial comfort and at times real wealth. I’m very guarded about money and will not generally splash out on things also I’m in a job I hate but I won’t leave because what if this or what if that happened (I did end up,a single parent) . I’m currently locked in a mental battle with myself that for my happiness I should leave the job and I have ample savings to see me through but that fear side of not having enough money just won’t let me I hate it.

On the plus side when my marriage ended so did my well off lifestyle but that didn’t bother me and I have been fine with it as my Mum likes to joke “You were groomed for poverty” Seriously though I think the effects of a hard up childhood have been myriad some good some not so good and I have in the past envied people from stable, not divorced comfortably off families

Can I just give each and every one of you a mahooooosive hug?

A very interesting and sobering thread.

We were never poverty stricken but never had much either way. Loving parents though, and although we didn't have much I don't remember ever going hungry. Being cold, yes, but nobody had full central heating either back in the day. Icy windows and Dad's big overcoat went on the bed in cold times.

Then again we lived in a community where everyone was in the same boat, so it was no shame to wear hand me downs/second hand or pay on the tick etc. everyone had to do that.

Just on another note, when I use my debit card it is on my internet banking more or less immediately. It is not deducted straight away but the bank gives the reduced balance available whilst the DC transactions are "pending". I always work on the Available balance!

I haven’t heard the replies yet but for me it’s the realization that I don’t “need” anything except basic shelter & food & water.

"So, you can disagree but you dont know my reality to say im falsely claiming the system is (too) generous" but you're also assuming your reality is the same for others.

You clearly had a decent credit record so you COULD get into debt to "bridge the gap", had by the sounds of it at least a few years of being well enough off to have decent household equipment that was likely new when bought, covered by guarantees/warranties and less likely to break down anyway - and even if it did you have credit available to replace.

Many of us do NOT have any of those options. THAT is the difference. So please stop claiming the welfare system is generous, it's not.

What would you have done if you'd not had the good fortune to have credit etc?

"I've yet to meet a poor employer. They may not be rich, but they certainly don't live in poverty." Totally agree, pisses me off every time you hear/read of them bitching about nmw or God forbid an actual living wage being implemented, especially as they've had years of being subsidised by tax credits. People working full time shouldn't need a top up from the govt to cover basic living costs in a wealthy country.

I know my reality isnt the same as others.

Im just saying my version is not false because it is different.

I've quite different attitude, mixed up a bit, having been at various highs and lows over the years and my childhood experiences.

All of it adds up.

I've found others comments interesting and relateable.

I prob wasnt consciously aware how much effect childhood financial experiences maps our brain. So this thread is eye opening with regard to that aspect.

I think there's a big difference between having all your bills covered but no spare money (which I have experienced) and actually having a complete insufficiency of money at all for anything (which I haven't experienced). One is skint and the other is proper poverty. When you're choosing between food and heating.

That's practically a statement of privilege in itself. My parents never had to choose between food and heating. We just didn't have heating and that was a given. There was never a choice because of course heating was unaffordable and that was just accepted and we got on with life without even thinking about it or missing it. We had a fireplace and my dad gathered firewood which we all learned to chop and lay in the fire. In the rest of the house we wore extra clothing. No fuss.