To ask what you learned from experiencing poverty?

[tucsontutu]

I am regular poster but nc for this. Reading several threads on mn, I realize how shockingly common it is to experience financial hardships at some point in life. That got me thinking, as I was lucky enough (so far) to never have experienced that. I am not and never was a millionaire, but I definitely never had to worry about essentials like food or heating. I realize how fortunate that is. I wonder if I would be different if I had experienced poverty/ financial hardship at some point in life.

So I am wondering what stays with people after they went through poverty. If you went through financial hardship and then recovered, do you think you would be different if you never experienced that time of difficulty?

Do you find that the people you know that have always been financially comfortable think differently from those who had to fight for their material comfort? Do they have a different approach to money?

Thank you for your comments!

Sorry - again there's new regs on smoke alarm locations that may well be where they had to put it - cousins a fireman fitting them/advising on fitting part of his job - I have the same problem as my ceilings are high and I'm a wee short arse

Without the credit those ground rent/parking charges, that the generous benefits didn't cover would have gone unpaid leading to bailiffs, courts, eviction/repossession (not exactly sure how shared ownership works) and I'd imagine their view of poverty would be less rose tinted.

Yes, Maybe....but my view isnt rose tinted.

After I had my hot water supply disconnected and threatened with court proceedings due to defaulting on payment. I had to call midwife and ask her not to do newborn home visit because she'd have no hot water for hand washing......ie. my views is not rose-tinted. That was a pretty low moment.

A combination of multiple factors, a large factor was the process of attending the job centre and attending work programme (it's grim the one i go to) led to GP diagnosing me with depression, and on to a very high dose of antidepressants.....my experience is not rose-tinted, no.

I then made do, did without. We've managed.

I was last in the job centre on the 21st and one advisor who i dont think her attitude or demeanour is fit to do her job, treated me like an inconvenience, a speck on her shoe.
I totally argee with past poster who said making them harder to claim won't reduce poverty either. It may erode their self-worth a little more but it won't make them any less poor.
But do you know why I kept going, even tho it contributed to my depression, because the amount I get is worth it, the benefits system has been generous to me financially. (Even if it made me feel down)

My last jsa payment came thru on the 27th Dec. My kids are fed, the bills are paid, the heating and hot water is on. All paid for thru various benefits. Ive been home all week with the kids. While others were working hard to afford the same.
How's that system not generous??

Do i expect it to fully fund everything, no. That doesnt mean its not still generous.

Another poster said the same, that actually living on benefits is possible if you are prudent. I agree.

I'm clearly not the only person with the same view.

I think my total benefits before the cap affected us came to £22k+.....er, generous!

You'd need a pre-tax earning of £34k to match what I got and I didnt need to go out to work every day.

Without the credit and without benefits for the last 3years+, I'll be honest, I'd have prob returned to work much much quicker.

DWP and local council calculate we're poor enough.
They looked at my finances and i was awarded discretionary housing payments to negate the benefits cap.

@thepurplesheep infers im not poor enough. My level isnt true poverty. My lows and arent low enough. My experiences not harrowing enough. (Because i have the option to get myself into debt through credit.) Okay

I think I've reached a place I can talk about it now, because after having done this for the last number of years, my various benefits claims are ending when my employment starts soon.

I'm just adding to the discussion.

@Graphista

Lol in which case, all is forgiven to the clever person who put them so far out reach 😂

Its been almost 4 years and the battery is flat now again, its been bleeping the last 3 days, high pitched periodic bleep. It is driving my nuts! I'll not be asking the fire station round again to bring the tall ladder 🙈 theres 3 other working fire alarms ones in the house. So this one will bleep in my dreams (argh!) until i can afford to hire a ladder myself. I may have gone insane from the bleep sound by then tho :P

Mines bleeping too (cousin away for Xmas and I'd rather he did it back next week) I agree it is bonkers regs, clearly man made rules cos they're bloody tall enough to sort it! I have a similar issue with gas meter

Gas company "can you see red button"

Me "yes"

GC "press to restart system"

me "I can't"

GC (male of course) "why not? It's not a hard button to push"

Me "because I can't bloody reach it"

What I've learnt? That I will always get through, the reality is I could still feed the family for less than £15 for a week if I needed to.
I learnt to become very resourceful.

Now I am far more comfortable than I have ever been in my entire life, I'm shit scared of losing that comfort. For the first time in my life I've actually had the means to pay for the things we not only need, but want. We no longer just about make it through, the most broke week of the year, we are usually on our arses, we've got a pay packet that went into the bank yesterday that we haven't touched and won't need to for maybe 2 weeks (during which point there will be more money!) and I'm so proud I had a little cry.

It takes years to truly understand that things are better though.
I now stockpile cleaning products, and food because I have memories of times where i literally couldn't afford food shopping or the laundry detergent..... years on I still feel fancy I use persil too!

How utterly miserable it can make you and your entire family. Combine mental health problems, drug problems and money problems makes for a thoroughly miserable existence that can travel through generations. However, I don't have to relive the same experience as an adult but I am aware that theres always stigma of being a "chav" and the odds are stacked against you In terms of education, employment opportunities, mental health and wellbeing but it's not impossible.

I have another one

It relates what I said before, but basically having a different definition of ‘normal’. I know a lot of people who will say, “I just had a normal upbringing, didn’t go without but nothing fancy either, didn’t have loads of money’ etc. These people lived in houses, with gardens, which their parents owned and never failed to make a mortgage payment, had central heating and appliances like washing machine, dishwasher etc and never had to worry about what to do if they broke down either, went on holiday at least once a year, had a car, clean dry clothes that fit, never worried about food, and so on. Some had private education, with some form of bursary, or grammar school, or a few from a very good state school. They did extra curriculars like playing an instrument or sport, and their parents supported them financially in some way when they were at university (as they all went to university, often very good/RG universities). They grew up with both parents, together, who both had professional jobs and qualifications.

It makes me wonder if that is genuinely the norm?! That sounds all very comfortable and at the upper end of living, although I recognise that past that is of course mega money but that only applies to a small proportion of the population. So which is more common, my experience or theirs? I think I need to find some stats...

Jaunty what you describe to me sounds like a very comfortable childhood indeed. Links to a decent site and reliable charity.

www.cpag.org.uk/child-poverty-facts-and-figures

Child poverty action group plus they link to stats from the DWP.

I remember having a big argument on MN many years ago when a documentary about poverty had been on tv. A few people refused to believe that a little girl on the programme was only given a sausage roll for her dinner, that is just not wanting to accept those situations happen. So when people write well we didn't have much I think what they are doing is really trying to protect themselves from the brutal reality some endure, it's too horrible for them to contemplate.

Jauntynomates - that's a normal childhood to me, and was the driving factor in me gettng away from my ex, a gambler.

Now I 'survive' on benefits. We don't own our home, it's rented.

But my children go to a good state school. My dad helps me run a car and buys us a self catered uk holiday every year. I can cook very well which is phenomenal for budgeting, and I know how to store food safely, and order from places like approved food, so all meals are nutritious, hot and healthy. Clothes are secret charity shop buys and they are clean, dry and well fitted. They have access to instruments if they want to learn to play, and I can teach them.

Most importantly, I don't have any addictions or illnesses that eat my meagre budget. My teenager asked me last year if we were poor, when I said no to the school skiing trip. I was proud of myself that he had to ask and didn't already know!

The shame is the thing that has stayed with me. A few examples that come to mind; an older couple that were on the board of the place I worked (and were not paying me minimum wage) asked me to get them something from my local butcher, I didn't have the money, so pretended I'd forgotten, they were very huffy. Telling my ds he could not have a friend over after school, made an excuse, but the reason was I only had enough food for his tea. Also see above, did not have any petrol to take friend home. Feeling like a criminal for going over my overdraft limit every month when a single parent & HSBC charging me up to £150 every month for doing so (hardly surprising I kept going over).

I was a poor student, but I always knew I had the safety net of mum and dad to go back to but I did learn how to budget.
I always had enough to eat and clothes to wear and enjoyed cheap nights out and those were the days you could get a free education and no debt and more importantly...we were all in the same boat.
Thankfully since my student days life has been very comfortable
I do feel for people who live below the comfortable level . It must feel that life is an existence rather than something to be enjoyed.
I just hope 2018 is much better for everyone.

My mum and three siblings were raised poor. I used to silently cry at her stories.
I’d have loved a sibling but they only had me and I wonder if her earlier poverty had made that a conscious decision.
One sister had none and the other had two but 19 years apart when their finances were very healthy.

One story she told me was she was asked by her grandmother what she would like for Christmas. She answered wellies as her shoes had holes in.
That’s exactly what she got ...a pair of wellies.

I had a very comfortable childhood. We weren’t poor but certainly weren’t rich. I’m grateful there was no sense of lack in my house.

I’ve probably gone the other way since my student days. If I want something I get it.
I don’t go for the most expensive, even though I can afford it.
I like value for money .

Thanks Peanut will have a read.

beco I think we’re similar (in the sense of creating ‘normal’), but I still feel like it’s a ‘luxury’ but that’s also probably heavily influenced by my upbringing. We’re not wealthy - we don’t have a car or go on holiday, and we’re council tenants (although these days that is a sort of luxury!), but we live in a house, have central heating and double glazing, and DCs and we have necessities as well as nice things to have. Plenty of food and some nice days out etc. They go to a good state school, although both have SN so education is a different ballgame anyway. Our area is being/has been gentrified so we benefit from that in the form of improved facilities and such.

I still live a bit prepared for the worst, as in, I’m prepared for this to go wrong - to lose disability benefits which are a huge help, or have to leave my job (I’m not actually worried about losing it as fairly stable but more worried that I’ll have to reduce hours or leave eventually to care for DH and DCs), or that a government will just start getting rid of council tenants or something. I’ve lost money and support so many times that I’ve taken it to be just something that happens - this time last year I couldn’t afford new shoes for the DCs, now I’ve just been on a shopping spree. It’s not my financial management as such, as I’m very organised, just circumstances that seem to change out of nowhere (last year was a sudden halt to tax credit payments for several months due to an admin error which led to overpayment...).

Anyway I should probably stop rambling!

Grew up poor-ish, not going without food but no money to spare. Ice on inside of windows, no central heating, tin bath in front of the (only) fire, mum did washing with a dolly tub and mangle - no I'm not 100, I was born in the late 50s. It got better and I'm now comfortably off, but it has stayed with me in certain ways - always keep the kitchen cupboards overstocked, hate to throw away food, repair clothes rather than chucking, etc. Also like PPs - and I know it's not logical - but I resent buying coffee and cake in a cafe, seems too extravagant. If we want or need something we buy it, but after consideration and checking reviews etc. Don't stint on food, heating, but don't take things for granted.

I've been though various times of being very poor - as a child and as single parent when I wouldn't eat so my dd could. Now that we are in a reasonable but by no means very secure state (although we do have a mortgaged house which will due to its location always be our buffer), I still panic and worry about running out of money. I often just open the food cupboard and look at all the food with a sense of excitement as I just don't remember full cupboards during either of those times.

So many inspiring stories here.
Yours particularly tringley
Reminds me so much of my dad..he could turn his hand to anything as well.
He got some good quality material and made me a kilt...which first time on I got a great hole in it from playing on a boogeyman.
Mum just invisibily mended it as she been to tailoring classes.
My generation’s parents 60 plus had been through the war years and knew how to stretch half a crown.

Boagey 😂

25 years ago I was a homeless disabled lone parent with a little baby. I had to start from scratch with nothing. Thankfully I was given a new council house, but I had nothing to put in it. Washed everything by hand for the first 5 years and had no curtains or carpets for 10.

Now I'm married to a man who earns a good salary but I still feel the effects now. I panic over the weekly shop when I get to the check out. I know I can pay for it but I still feel that fear of humiliation at not having enough and having to put stuff back. I also can't bring myself to sell stuff I'm done with. I need to give it away, especially baby stuff. I don't really understand why, I just know that giving stuff freely to someone struggling eases my own past hurt a little bit.

I've learnt that you need less stuff to survive and be happy. I've learnt to be more frugal and I've noticed how unhappy some wealthy people actually are. It has made me appreciate wealth less not more.

Such an interesting thread.
Mumsnet at its very best with everyone chipping in with their experiences.
It’s really made me question my attitude to money. I’ve grown up quite thrifty.
I buy as much as possible in cash. Any credit card purchases are paid off in full each month.
,I’ve never bought really expensive items. I live in a modest house and drive modest cars. I can’t see the point of spending more .
The thought of spending £25 k on a car is alien to me. Probably £10 k is the highest I’d go so I guess I’ll only have one that is a year old.
I reckon I’ve taken over where my dad left off. Thrifty and careful.
I see no point in being reckless with money.
What £15. K is probably half what some people would spend on a kitchen for eg.
In fact my friend did just that and I don’t think it looks any better than mine where I’ve just had the doors changed and new flooring.

I hope I don’t come across as miserly and miserable. I’m not like that at all and treat my family loads

Seem to have lost a chunk of my post.
I’ve spent £15k this year doing my house from top to bottom. Inside and out
Got fabulous new decking, outdoor walls resurfaced , new path, outdoor pipes painted and new guttering and fascia, new rewire.
Repaint right through and new flooring in five rooms , and kitchen doors changed

I have a timetable in my head of the best time to shop to get as much stuff from the reduced to clear sectons of supermarkets - at my nearest one it's the last hour on a Thursday and the last half hour on Sunday. Nearest Tesco Metro is around 4pm Sunday etc etc.

I eat well because I can cook. I am amazed that people will spend £30 at the supermarket on ready meals which only provide half a dozen meals. I could feed 3 on that for over a week if necessary.

My Mam was brought up in abject poverty as her mother had the audacity to leave a violent man. He beat her so severely she lost her fourth child at eight months pregnant when he threw her down the stairs. She went to the priest to ask his advice and was told she’d made her bed. Granny refused to claim any benefits and took on a pub by night and worked the buses by day. Despite this there was never enough money to go round and Mam remembers there literally being no food so they’d have to ask relatives to feed them. Clothes were darned upon darned. Children were sent out to earn as early as possible.

She remembers going to the county court to ask if Mr Tosser had paid any money in for them that week. He died leaving thousands but was quite happy for his children to starve. Her sister glosses over his past and is very much like him in that she will latch on to any person she believes will leave her money in a will. She continued to visit the old fucker in his old age despite what he’d done. She went the way of being miserly with money. Staying in a tiny unsuitable house due to not wanting to take out a mortgage. She is the most penny pinching person when they have 100s of thousands in the bank. They just paid cash for a new Prius but ducks out of her share of meals out. She disgusts me to be honest. My Mam said she’s just like her father.

My Mam went the other way and made sure she trained in a profession which would mean she was never out of work. She’s the most generous person. If someone says they like her bracelet she’ll take it off and give it to them. I remember as a kid one of her nursing friends had no xmas presents so my Mam dropped £300 cash, from the overtime she’d been doing off, anonymously. She says to me that when she hasn’t got it we can’t have it so she wants to help us children off as much as she can. I know I could ask her for anything.

I left a very abusive relationship with my 3 dcs and just the clothes we were wearing. We went from having a naice house in a good area to homeless with not a penny to our names (exh claimed cb and tc for dcs so took ages to sort out)

We're still not 'there' yet and me and dcs regularly go cold and hungry and we had no Christmas presents or dinner last week. I know if I ever get out of this hell my dcs will want for nothing but until then we regularly visit the food bank and I'm a dab hand at making a meal out of a tin of soup and 2 sausages

I was homeless and disabled for a while, and raised my disabled DS as a lone parent on benefits, so I've experienced poverty over a long period. What I learned was that you have to be shrewd and calculating to manage, and spend time looking for every additional funding opportunity on offer. There are actually quite a few grants and charities out there, for people in my position (single disabled student with a disabled child). I managed to get grants and payments in addition to benefits, which meant we weren't always living a deprived lifestyle, and also took advantage of freebies like free carer entry and free bus travel. I'm also naturally thrifty as I grew up in a family on benefits, and also understood the benefits and council housing system so I knew how to secure cheap housing which has meant a better lifestyle living in a central location as no rent topups needed. Even on benefits, we always had enough money for the basics like food, heating and travel. I have been in debt but never to the point that I couldn't manage payments.

I am pretty well off now as I remarried but I stick to some frugal principles still, and that's meant that we haven't experienced lifestyle creep or the need to keep up with the Joneses. DH can't really understand my experience of poverty as he's never known it, but he's naturally frugal too, which helps. I still take advantage of discounts and concessions for disabled people. I have friends who are on very comfortable incomes who grumble about the cost of living and I'm amazed at what they spend money on (Uber, takeout coffees, cars). When I've been able to see a detailed breakdown of other people's expenses on forums, it makes me realise that even when I was on a low income, I actually had the same or more disposable income than some people on a very good wage, just because they frittered money away needlessly and so their quality of life wasn't any better than mine.