To ask what you learned from experiencing poverty?

[tucsontutu]

I am regular poster but nc for this. Reading several threads on mn, I realize how shockingly common it is to experience financial hardships at some point in life. That got me thinking, as I was lucky enough (so far) to never have experienced that. I am not and never was a millionaire, but I definitely never had to worry about essentials like food or heating. I realize how fortunate that is. I wonder if I would be different if I had experienced poverty/ financial hardship at some point in life.

So I am wondering what stays with people after they went through poverty. If you went through financial hardship and then recovered, do you think you would be different if you never experienced that time of difficulty?

Do you find that the people you know that have always been financially comfortable think differently from those who had to fight for their material comfort? Do they have a different approach to money?

Thank you for your comments!

I learned that it's not a huge deal, it's not final and I can chose and work not to stay poor, it's a mindset really, AS LONG AS I am healthy. Basically, if you are unwell, you are screwed. That scares me a lot.

When I got divorced and was struggling to make ends meet I had an extremely strict budget with every penny accounted for and no flexibility for any extra at all. I couldn’t afford to heat my house or for a tv licence, so used to go to bed in the winter when I got home from work and either study or read books from the library. I couldn’t afford to even take a cheap bottle of wine to a friends house without going without several meals, so I rarely went out. One day I had to use my emergency credit card to pay £10 for the cheapest black shoes I could find as my last pair had finally split completely across the sole and fell apart on the way into work. I was so anxious about how I would manage to pay it back. I was very fortunate though in that I was on my own, no DCs at that time and knew that within 2 years I would get a further professional qualification that meant I could do shift work as a sole worker and increase my income. So really my experience was actually fine compared with the experiences of so many people. I still have the account book I kept during that time and I’ve tried to make sure I never forget the sheer grind and isolation of not having enough to do more than get by and to be considerate of others circumstances.

i grew up in a council house, parents on benefits so not much spare money. I left school, got a really good job and was doing ok then i met exdp who was a nightmare, bought a house i couldnt afford with a dodgy Northern Rock Mortgage but with only my income it was a struggle. Now i still live in a council house and work min wage jobs to fit round 3 DC.

I think if i hadn't met EXDP or aimed higher i would have worked my way up a class maybe and done ok or met a different partner with ambition.

Feel like ive grafted my arse off all my life and got no where

I left home at 18, fell out with parents and moved in with a physically, financially and emotionally abusive partner. He was also an alcoholic with a weed addiction. We lived in what was essentially a squat although we paid for privilege. I then fell pregnant with DS1. I remember not eating for 3days at a time, shoplifting for food, him picking fag ends off the street to make into roll ups, filling pockets and bags full of loo roll from pubs and public loos.

We didn't have electric for weeks at a time so would have candles which he eventually managed to set the bedsit on fire with. We had no glass in some windows so they would be taped with with cardboard and bin liners. We would eat straight out of tins as we couldn't heat water to wash up. It was awful. The bank confiscated my card when I ran up an unauthorised overdraft and used to make me go in and write cheques out for cash - no bad thing really but it felt like another kick in the teeth at the time.

I felt like a sub-human. I felt dirty as all my clothes were hand washed in cold water and I used to have to strip wash in cold water as no shower. I shut myself off from others as I thought I must have looked like someone they wanted to avoid being associated with. You end up falling into bad company, although I met some very kind people along the way who could see the situation I was in. When I eventually managed to extract the ex from my life 2yrs later I couldn't actually believe how much money I had left over at the end of each pay packet.

These days I still hoard tinned food, I hide money in a number of accounts. I have decent savings, enough to survive for a year should something happen. I have a good pension and bonds in place for the kids for university.

I find it hard to spend anything on myself and luxuries make me anxious. My only debt is a small mortgage and a finance agreement on a couple of double glazed windows as it was 0% and made no difference if I paid cash upfront. I drive an ancient car, I could afford a new one but it seems frivolous. I've been to look at newer cars but I panic and run away when I see the salesman appear out of his lair.

I wear clothes and shoes to death and then I replace them with cheap ones. I have my hair cut and dyed twice a year by a hairdresser friend who I do accounts for otherwise I do it myself.

I hope none of my children ever experience what I did.

I remember once when pregnant with DS, I had just graduated university and DP was working part time. We weren't old enough to qualify for CTC.

One week after all outgoings were paid we had £17 to live on for the week, which included transport.

We couldn't justify petrol, so DP walked 1.5 hours to and from work each day. We took a calculator with us to Tesco and bought everything value or reduced.

I remember sitting at home that night and fancying some crisps but we couldn't justify buying them, so I made some from vegetable peelings. I still make them now, DP calls them my pauper crisps but they're actually nice!

We also started matched betting to make a bit of extra income, and I still pick this up sometimes if things are tight at the end of the month.

We now both work full time and are by no means wealthy or rich or even well off but we no longer struggle day to day.

I came from a deprived area and would say the impact of poverty is very individual. Even within my own family, I am a rainy day person and whilst I am generous with others I am extremely strict on myself. One of my brothers is very “live for today” and a spender. We had the same poverty experience but have become very different with money.

I've never experienced true poverty but I've been skint, in mortgage arrears, arrangements with lenders etc
The most important lesson I learned was that money MUST be respected.
Earn it respectfully and spend it respectfully. Budget well and live within your means.
We are relatively well off again but I will never ever forget those lessons

@curious.

I am fully aware of research and the JRF one you mention. I have spent two years on a funded research project on women living in poverty compared to women in the Cathy Come Home era.

There are extreme barriers for women in austerity .

Austerity, we do have. And that is not working. That makes for tough times. Barriers to housing exist and that causes extreme hardship.

Oh yes, i forgot bout the bailiffs taking stuff and hiding from the milkman.

We’ve/I’ve been poor, which in and of itself is a varied experience - I am lucky enough to never have been so poor as to find myself e.g. wanting to or actually committing crime, it never got quite as desperate as that. I grew up around a lot of people for whom that felt like the only way out.

I’ve been in the position of not knowing how I will afford food, definitely not paying for things like heating, not being able to afford washing my clothes (I ended up in the same two outfits for months which I washed alternately in the bathtub with a bit of soap and just hoped real bad they would actually dry before I needed to wear it, but have left the house in many a damp outfit...). I grew up knowing that if absolutely anything went awry (e.g. if something broke, an emergency etc) then the food shop would be out, although lucky enough to normally buy the cheap bread and beans from Happy Shopper to tide us over, so never so poor as to be completely without food. DH grew up ‘poorer’ in that regard.

I’m quite good with money although still learning how to treat myself with anything other than food, as that for some reason was the thing I pined for most - I wanted to buy orange juice and hot chocolate and stuff like that but couldn’t. I struggle to buy very expensive food though we rarely buy meats like beef or lamb because of how expensive they are per kilo, although we can afford it (still learning!), but weirdly will happily indulge in a nice takeaway because it feels like a real luxury to me. I am learning to treat myself with nice things that aren’t just food related.

We feel very fortunate and comfortable right now. Compared to my colleagues at work they still see me as having to ‘strive’ (don’t ask how I know, long story!), but we have zero debt, disposable income, we have more food than we need really, no worries about heating, luxuries (clothes, gadgets etc). We don’t have a car or go on holiday but I didn’t grow up with that so I’m not really bothered! I do hope to be able to take the DCs on holidays abroad by the time they are teens, so they can learn about the world first hand and experience different countries and cultures.

Like other pps have said, they main thing I notice is that other people just don’t ‘get it’. Which is fine, you need a mix of people and all, and I don’t ‘get’ what it’s like to have grown up differently either. The issue really is when you have a lot of people in powerful positions who don’t ‘get it’ but set the rules and opportunities for everyone. That’s the main thing that winds me up a bit. Plus I don’t feel like I fit in in my work environment as most people haven’t had experiences similar to mine and this seems to have shaped us all differently as people. E.g. many colleagues are ‘struggling’ with buying their first property and how stressful it is, I appreciate it must be really stressful, but it’s not an experience I actually know and I don’t know if I ever will (for a variety of reasons). On the other hand, in the past year I’ve had issues with the LA and HMRC over earnings and benefits stuff and none of them can relate to that. It is what it is I guess.

Phoenix ... I'm 1972 and all very familiar. Lying on the floor when the rent man knocked heart racing? Hating school collections and sponsored things etc ...It was the humiliation that was the worst thing. You are right you never forget.

I am fully aware of research and the JRF one you mention Then why ask if we have real poverty?

Or did I misunderstand something. You use the word 'austerity'... but there is real destitution, using the JRF definition or a more Victorian Workhouse one.

Like quite a few other posters I work/volunteer for a community charity and food bank. I see real destitution. People, not just women, who stop using the food bank and start using the soup kitchen because they can't afford to heat food, or their homes. People who barricade their family into a single room to try and keep them all warm. Kids whose parents make sure they have clothing, are clean, get school meals, go to breakfast clubs, whilst not being able to afford enough food for themselves.

The real indices of abject poverty that many like to think are a thing of the past are still with us!

Having grown up without being allowed much and stuggled in adult life after DC dad disappeared I find I struggle to let go of stuff.

In younger years it was out of date food, cleaning products and hygiene products. Now I still have to remind myself to let go of clothes, cooking/eating stuff and kids toys. I stockpile items if I don't keep things in check and find it hard not to take unneeded free items "just incase".

2 DC with disabilities so I work very little hours and rely on DLA that's renewed every year/2 years. So I know we could face a hard time again if someone in an office decides DC don't qualify (even with lots of evidence) or the government changes the goal posts. It means I struggle to let go of my old ways incase I need them again.

I never realised how little money there was when I was a child as I never went hungry and the obsession with looking well presented and having a clean house really comes from a fear (or certainly was in my family) of appearing poor

I have as an adult been poor not having the money for basics, always always worrying about money and I still do always worry about money. Now I’m more comfortable it’s still a worry but not in the same way as long as I have stocked cupboards and fridge I can pay my rent I can relax

Being poor is so utterly stressful and miserable money can’t buy you happiness but that security of not constantly worrying how you will pay the rent/basic food/bills certainly makes life more comfortable

I think it is one of the issues that people really strugggle to understand how stressful it is and then make stupid remarks like I could live without money but what they are thinking about is living without expensive purchases not basics in life

I see poverty in school where I work. Some homes we visit would make you weep and the pupils do have nothing.
Over the last few years if a plea goes out for clothes I will go to Primark and buy what is needed.
This Christmas we made chocolate hampers for the pupils who would have nothing. We delivered about 10 hampers to their homes.
I have never know poverty but recognise it and do what I can to help. I always give to the food bank when doing my weekly shop.
As the saying goes.....There for the grace of God go I.

As well as many of the behaviours described I've also been left with a really dodgy moral compass

I'd have pretty much no qualms about stealing, lying, manipulating when cornered by poverty

I did all of those as a starving child

Does MN just have a more working-class, less well off kind of audience or are people in general really struggling?

I've always been middle class and never known anyone 'struggling' financially, so MN really opened my eyes.

Grew up in poor family dad ill and unemployed for number of years. Now confortably off in middle age.
Hate the platitudes 'we were poor but happy' my response is: really? and 'better poor and healthy than rich and unhealthy' my response is: better still rich and healthy
Being poor is miserable.

The panic never goes away.

You could have £1000 in the bank but if you get an unexpected bill, its panic stations.

We are slowly but surely getting back on our feet after living in poverty for five years. For the last six months there has only been one week where we didn't have any money left the day before payday.

I will never, no matter how much better off we get, forget the kindness of strangers. It seems that financially well off people have very little desire to help the poor within their communities, (I can't speak for everyone, only from my experience), but the poor help the poor.

The lady I met in passing at college spoke to others and brought back enough second hand clothes for my kids to last two years.

The neighbour who heard me crying in pain from hunger brought us a weeks worth of cooked meals, just to be heated.

The man in the corner shop took my healthy start vouchers for a few months before I figured out that the shop wasn't registered to take them and he'd been covering the cost from his own pocket.

The friend of a friend who brought her sons old toys on Xmas eve for us to use as Xmas gifts for our own child. And her friend, who brought us a stack of unused gift cards which were due to expire and wouldn't be used.

None of these people were even remotely well off financially. More so than we were, but not at all compared to others.

There was a period of two months where our only income was child benefit for one child (£20 ish) a week. We were living in a bed and breakfast and had no way of cooking or doing laundry. I will never forget every single one of those people, men, women, teens, who helped us during those times.

There were plenty of times when the reasons we had no money/food/electricity etc couldn't have been predicted or planned for but I know that if it hadn't been for the kindness of random people we would never have survived.

As such we as a family learned to have faith in humanity and to give back whatever we can. We're not well off now but we contribute to our community, we go to the shops for our elderly neighbours, we babysit their kids so they can go for job interviews etc, my partner walks a few of the neighbours dogs when they're away for the day.

It's a horrible place I'd never wish to go back to, but there's light in the darkness and that's what will stick with me.

By to judge. I was so poor once, when I was a single mum, ex wasn't contributing to DS. That I had to wear black PJ bottoms to work once. You couldn't tell they were pretty thick because I couldn't justify £10 on a new pair of trousers.

I had to borrow food from relatives, and a birthday present one year was a months worth of food because I was struggling to pay debts ex left.

People who haven't been there don't get it. At all.

The panic never goes away. You could have £1000 in the bank but if you get an unexpected bill, its panic stations.

This! I agree beco.

Bonesey your post made me cry .... it's so true that it's the poor who help the poor. You have made me want to do more. A great thread at xmas to remind those of us who have been there to give others a helping hand this coming year.

I've been poor and I've been rich, and I preferred poor

I grew up in poverty and a very unloving home. No affection or nice words spoken to me or around me. I used school as my escape plan, if I could go to university I could get out and away. It worked but I suffered immensely in that home, and was kicked out at 16. In control of the very little money I had, I was still in a precarious position until I went to uni at 18. Then I felt like I was on an even footing with my peers, student loans and a part time job got me through uni. I quickly realised my peers had a giant advantage, a loving supportive home to go back to, with people who genuinely care.

I’ve worked for everything I have. I’ve the main earner and struggle with throwing things away if they can still be of use. I’m in real danger of becoming a hoarder. Clothes, toiletries, kids toys etc - I can’t get rid of them, selling on eBay is proving too much for me and I get overwhelmed by it all. I can’t bear to waste something.

I take my DS to the food bank with donations, I want him to understand that not everyone has what we have. He went to a friends house after school to play recently, but they didn’t have any toys at all. Only an x box and games on it. My boy was shocked and asked me if they were poor. I don’t know but I’ve asked him to be more aware of others and how different lives can be.

I’ve just got back from visiting DM, she’s alone and sad. She has the life she made for herself. It’s cyclical. She grew up in poverty and abusive parents. She did the best she could, it wasn’t good enough but she doesn’t have the capability to reflect and understand that her best was neglectful and that this is why DB is NC.