Page 5 | to think that Ian Huntley is most definitely not a woman?

ATeardropExplodes · 2017-12-28T17:09:50+00:00

[[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/15/call-lian-child-killer-ian-huntley-has-told-inmates-call-feminine/]] If anyone has any evidence to convince me otherwise please do enlighten me, thanks in advance.

MrsDilber · 28/12/2017 19:39

I second piffle.

There are a select few that deserve the noose, Huntley being one of them.

Elendon · 28/12/2017 19:39

So only recent news is relevant?

Ignore anything less than a few months old?

As I previously remarked. Deliberately being obtuse.

wherethevioletsgrow · 28/12/2017 19:40

You state this as if it was fact. I wish to know how you know this and a link would be good to support your assertion as well

The article the OP posted says he has no plans to transition or to ask to be moved to a women's prison.

The only evidence we have comes from cellmates (again this is clear from the article)- there is no official statement from the prison or from IH's lawyer for example.

I can't really prove a negative can I? Where would I find a link that he definitely doesn't intend to transition? Why are you not asking for a link proving that Levi Bellfield does not intend to transition as well?

LostInTheTunnelOfGoats · 28/12/2017 19:41

Of course. He has left a trail of victims behind him.

Nothing screams "woman" quite like using your penis and male size/strength as a tool of rape, domination and terror.

So feminine.

wherethevioletsgrow · 28/12/2017 19:44

So only recent news is relevant? Ignore anything less than a few months old? As I previously remarked. Deliberately being obtuse

No but there was a very similar thread yesterday on which the OP was active. What is served by starting a new one when this story is not even a current news one? I simply questioned it and so did many many others on this thread. The OP can of course post whatever she likes.

Why am I deliberately obtuse because I disagree with you on certain points? I have not made similar accusations against you. I thought the whole point of trans threads was to debate the issue.

Original poster

ATeardropExplodes · 28/12/2017 19:48

I will respect their wish to ...be called what they want because all humans should have that right

Generally though, males are he and females are she. What gives anyone the right to ask everyone else in the world to refer to them as the opposite of what they are? You cannot just change reality because a tiny section of people are saying it is so...when it will never be.

OP posts:

Original poster

ATeardropExplodes · 28/12/2017 19:51

this story is not even a current news one

The story that the GRA may be changed is a current one.. this is an example of how that could be used. I have already said this more than once. You are not the gatekeeper of what is news and what isn't.

OP posts:

wherethevioletsgrow · 28/12/2017 19:54

What gives anyone the right to ask everyone else in the world to refer to them as the opposite of what they are? You cannot just change reality because a tiny section of people are saying it is so...when it will never be

Because they prefer to be addressed in that way? It does not cause you any hardship to use 'she' when talking to or about a trans woman. It causes psychological distress to a trans woman to be referred to as 'he' (whether you agree it should or not- it does). It really is just a case of common courtesy.

Additionally, the law permits gender reassignment whereby it would be incorrect to use the birth-pronoun because the trans person has now been issued with a new birth certificate. You could argue that your right to 'correctly label' someone trumps their right to be addressed as they wish but it probably wouldn't get you very far.

Stopthetrain · 28/12/2017 19:55

A little off the topic of the OP, but claiming gender is open to abuse, particularly by some male prisoners. This is Tiffany Scott a transgender prisoner in Scotland. This first link details his level of extreme violence:

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/1492364/transgender-prisoner-tiffany-scott-andrew-burns-dangerous-sheriff/

This second link is a report on his request to only be searched by female officers, which actually happened for one day before the union stepped in:

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/sex-swap-prisoner-sparks-revolt-7666459

wherethevioletsgrow · 28/12/2017 19:56

The story that the GRA may be changed is a current one.. this is an example of how that could be used. I have already said this more than once. You are not the gatekeeper of what is news and what isn't

I know that and I acknowledged that and I have never said I am a gatekeeper of anything. It's just because Elendon went back through my posts on the thread to bring the issue up again. I thought it was over (plus I am far from the only one who pointed it out).

LittleLionMansMummy · 28/12/2017 19:57

There is nothing to prevent IH seeking a GRC if he can convince psychiatrists that he has gender dysphoria.

Given that he was unable to even convince psychiatrists that he was unfit to stand trial I don't think much to his chances frankly.

As someone who worked very closely with those who built the case against him, he is an unintelligent chancer who will feign anything (not very convincingly either) if it is likely to work to his advantage - mental illness, sorrow, remorse, gender dysphoria - it's all aimed at distraction tactics to minimise what he's done to try to garner sympathy because he cannot/ will not take responsibility for his actions, or the subsequent consequences of those actions.

He's not female and neither does he identify as female, just as he showed no genuine remorse for the girls he murdered, nor suffered any form of mental illness that diminished his responsibility for their murders. He wants to try to make his time in prison more bearable. That is all.

'She' indeed. I struggle even with 'him' - he's an 'It' at best.

Original poster

ATeardropExplodes · 28/12/2017 20:05

Because they prefer to be addressed in that way? It does not cause you any hardship to use 'she' when talking to or about a trans woman

Nobody seems worried about women being called all the names under the sun, just when walking down the street but the moment a man decides he wants to be referred to as she we are all supposed to fawn about so as not to cause any psychological distress.

OP posts:

runwalkrun · 28/12/2017 20:06

For a start, stop calling him Lian.
He is Ian.
Stop pandering to him.
It amazes me how easily people are bullied and browbeaten into accepting and doing things that don't sit right.
It's about time people stopped pandering to this shit.

He is a child murder.
And his name is IAN.
End of.

wherethevioletsgrow · 28/12/2017 20:12

Nobody seems worried about women being called all the names under the sun, just when walking down the street but the moment a man decides he wants to be referred to as she we are all supposed to fawn about so as not to cause any psychological distress

well, obviously it works the other way too in terms of trans men who want to be referred to by male pronouns. Idk, I personally do not feel i have a 'right' to call someone 'he' if they tell me repeatedly they want to be known as 'she'. That fundamentalist Christian teacher refused to do it though. (Unfortunately he also believes gays should burn in the fires of hell so he might not be the best person to align yourself with.) But he believed his religious beliefs trumped his pupil's wish to be addressed by the male pronoun.

SimonBridges · 28/12/2017 20:13

It causes psychological distress to a trans woman to be referred to as 'he' (whether you agree it should or not- it does). It really is just a case of common courtesy.

When he decided to murder children he lost all right to me worrying about the pronoun I use.

bobstersmum · 28/12/2017 20:13

I don't advocate rape either but I sure hope he's suffered in there! And I find it hard to believe that all the inmates want his autograph, aren't child killers usually hated?

wherethevioletsgrow · 28/12/2017 20:15

Simon I have not referred to IH as 'she' on this thread. I am talking more about if you work with someone who is trans (or teach them). If they say to you please call me x, would you refuse to do it?

SimonBridges · 28/12/2017 20:16

Oh of course. Someone I was to work with, know socially, teach etc I would use he or she as requested.

runwalkrun · 28/12/2017 20:18

I personally do not feel i have a 'right' to call someone 'he' if they tell me repeatedly they want to be known as 'she

It doesn't matter many times he repeatedly tells people he wants to be called 'she'
He murdered two innocent little girls.
That gives us the right to call him what we want.

wherethevioletsgrow · 28/12/2017 20:27

runwalkrun I am not talking about Ian Huntley, some random child murderer. I am talking about people I work with, students I teach, someone I was serving if I worked in a public-facing role. I would address them in the way they wanted to be addressed because it would not cause me any hardship to do so but it would cause them distress if I didn't. Would others not do this?
I couldn't give a flying fuck about IH and his feelings to be honest.

bambambini · 28/12/2017 20:35

In the vast majority of cases it means you do your 'expressing' in the appropriate prison, which for violent male offenders is a men's prison.

I thought Tara Hudson (a violent offender) was moved to a woman’s prison without having a GRC.

Murderer and torturer Paris Green - a woman with a penis was moved to several women’s prisons.

Ponting - a serial rapist (ore op - i think) was moved to a women’s prison.

I don’t see why it’s not possible for Huntley to be moved if he continues down this path.

Surely especially if self id comes in and the fact a violent pre op male with no GRC has alreadybeen sent to a woman's prison means that to pick and choose would be discriminatory. How can they pick and choose?

PencilsInSpace · 28/12/2017 21:00

Since this story was published there has been a proposal that the gender recognition act be reformed.

At the moment, in order to legally change your gender you need a diagnosis of gender dysphoria and two years' worth of documents in your new name.

Under the new proposals you would just have to sign a form.

Prison service guidance states that anybody with a GRC must be housed in the estate corresponding to their new gender. The prison service only get to exercise discretion in cases where a prisoner does not have a GRC.

The UK consultation on changes to the GRA has been delayed but the Scottish consultation is open. There is nothing in the Scottish consultation documents about additional safeguards for prisons.

Under the GRA it is a criminal offence to disclose someone's trans history where that knowledge has been gained in an official capacity.

Misgendering someone would be classified and recorded as a hate incident if someone decided to make something of it. It could be classified as a hate crime if the police decided it constituted harrassment.

There isn't anything particularly remarkable about huntley except for his infamy. There are many, many other terrifyingly abusive and murderous men in prison. Around half the trans prison population are male sex offenders.

Too tired and pissed to do links tonight but happy to return tomorrow if the thread's still up.

bambambini · 28/12/2017 21:14

And i can understand why the op started this thread. Recently we’ve had Hannah Mouncey wanting to play Aussie football, Hubbard win 2 silver medals at the women’s weight lifting world championships, a TW volleyball player in the US making a bid for the women’s national team, Lily Madigan take a woman’s role in politics and a few days ago Monroe Bergdorf be asked to speak for women on Woman’s Hour.

I think the OP was just wondering how far people are willing to accept a male idying as a woman - and wondering at what point folk are going to start feeling uncomfortable with that premise.

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 28/12/2017 21:16

I'm with RWR.
Why are people pondering to this disgusting creep.

PortlyWino · 28/12/2017 21:27

"He's not female and neither does he identify as female, just as he showed no genuine remorse for the girls he murdered, nor suffered any form of mental illness that diminished his responsibility for their murders. He wants to try to make his time in prison more bearable. That is all."

Just this.