to think that Ian Huntley is most definitely not a woman?

[ATeardropExplodes]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/15/call-lian-child-killer-ian-huntley-has-told-inmates-call-feminine/

If anyone has any evidence to convince me otherwise please do enlighten me, thanks in advance.

It is a hate crime to deny him being a woman

Under which piece of legislation is it a hate crime, Elendon? It would be a hate crime if you targeted someone and committed a crime against them BECAUSE they were transgender (or black, or gay, or Jewish). It is not a hate crime to have a debate around whether an individual is male or female.

I am not in favour of the reforms but very little is served by exaggerating or inventing things. Nor is anything served by pretending that gender dysphoria doesn't exist such as making jokes about identifying as a chocolate mousse etc.

Why single out Ian Huntley? I could be inferring incorrectly, but it seems to me that she is being singled out because she especially is not a woman. Which is what made me think that it was a behaviour/dress thing

She?

Ian Huntley is singled out because you would have to be totally insane to think that he could ever really be a woman and he is high enough profile that most people in the UK won't need to go and do a ton of research to know who he is.

So you genuinely think he is a woman?

Even though he just asked for a name change?

My reason for thinking he is not a woman is that he has a penis and testicules.

In which case, someone like Huntley is as equally not a woman as anyone else with a penis/testicles. So there is nothing especially interesting about this case specifically? Fair enough.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/hate-crime/sexual-orientation-and-transgender-identity-hate-crime/

wherethevioletsgrow

Hope that sheds some light on it for you. It is considered violent and hostile to misgender someone.

Hostile or violent incidents because of your transgender identity are known as transphobic hate incidents.

I am not in favour of the reforms but very little is served by exaggerating or inventing things.

Alot of people are not even aware that the potential to change the law is even on the agenda. Exaggerating or inverting things is how we look at various examples under the potential new law. Surely you know that?

I knew I'd seen it somewhere, thanks elendon.

So there is nothing especially interesting about this case specifically?

Well there is because nearly a year ago he asked to be known as a female name, and you immediately defaulted to calling him she without question. Do you not question anything logically at all?

You really could not invent or make this shit up. It is happening and it is real.

If Lian Huntley decided to put in a request for a GRC certificate and it was passed, then Lian Huntley is allowed to be moved to an all women's estate.

Ian Huntley is singled out because you would have to be totally insane to think that he could ever really be a woman and he is high enough profile that most people in the UK won't need to go and do a ton of research to know who he is

But you could have chosen anyone couldn't you? Vincent Tabak, Levi Bellfield, Rolf Harris, John Wuorboys. It's a hypothetical argument because Ian Huntley is not saying that he is a woman either.

The question then becomes 'can an evil criminal man change gender'? Well under current law, yes he can, despite being an evil criminal. There is nothing to prevent IH seeking a GRC if he can convince psychiatrists that he has gender dysphoria. It will become much easier in the future, but it is still possible now.

If the question in fact is 'can a man ever become a woman', meaning can biological and chromosomal changes be achieved, then the answer is no. Then it makes zero difference whether the man in question is good or bad because it is just not possible.

I think everyone agrees that IH is not a woman though.

Elendon, it is only a hate crime if it is already a crime, such as harassment. Hopefully nobody is suggesting that they would go around harassing trans people. From your own link:

There are no specific homophobic or transphobic hate crimes. Any criminal offence can be a hate crime, if the offender targeted you because of their prejudice or hostility against LGBT people.

Saying you do not believe it is possible for someone to change biological sex is not a hate crime and there are no plans to make it a hate crime.

It's a hypothetical argument because Ian Huntley is not saying that he is a woman either.

He has asked to be called a female version of his name, which as we can see above, is enough to suddenly be referred to as a woman. So not hypothetical at all.

wherethevioletsgrow

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

If Lian Huntley is not a woman then is Lily Madigan not a woman either?

In which case, someone like Huntley is as equally not a woman as anyone else with a penis/testicles. So there is nothing especially interesting about this case specifically? Fair enough.

The reason this is interesting is because some people will say ‘oh but he isn’t a real trans person, a real trans person wouldn’t behave like that’ etc.
So if we can say that he isn’t a women because he has a penis / isn’t doing it right, then we can say the same of every trans person surely.

Alot of people are not even aware that the potential to change the law is even on the agenda. Exaggerating or inverting things is how we look at various examples under the potential new law. Surely you know that?

But then you lose credibility. If you claim that even calling IH a 'he' will become a hate crime, people will just say 'no, that is incorrect'. Which it is- completely so.

It would be better to lobby for exceptions to female-only spaces to be kept, e.g. rape crisis centres etc. If you make wild and spurious claims, people will just write it off as bigotry. And by outright denying that trans is a thing or making jokes about trans people, that is even more likely to come across as bigoted.

A lot of people are saying that Lily Madigan is a woman because:

All trans women are women. Lily changed her name from Liam to Lily and wore a skirt to school.

Lian Huntley (Lian being the feminine version of Ian) is therefore a woman.

Both Lily and Lian have been on Sky News.

He’s not a fucking woman for gods sake.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

No. Why do you think I am?

If Lian Huntley is not a woman then is Lily Madigan not a woman either?

Does LM have a GRC? If not, then no, Lily Madigan is not a woman under current law. And biologically of course, she is not female and never will be.
Huntley is not a woman either and has made no claim to be a woman and the only evidence otherwise is some gossip from his cellmates.

But then you lose credibility. wherethevioletsgrow

No you don't. What you do lose is a platform on which to speak.

And you would never risk your livelihood by misgendering an employee and the added risk of compensation payout.

So a GRC automatically makes you a woman now? wherethevioletsgrow

I don't have a GRC. Does that mean that I'm not a woman?

Does LM have a GRC? If not, then no, Lily Madigan is not a woman under current law. And biologically of course, she is not female and never will be.

But you refer to him as she? So you think he is a woman?

Huntley is not a woman either and has made no claim to be a woman and the only evidence otherwise is some gossip from his cellmates.

You state this as if it was fact. I wish to know how you know this and a link would be good to support your assertion as well.

What a shame he didn't decide that he was a woman before he committed his sexually motivated murder of two ten year old girls.

ATeardropExplodes He has asked to be called a female version of his name, which as we can see above, is enough to suddenly be referred to as a woman. So not hypothetical at all.

I took the implications of your OP title on faith. Your OP title makes it sound as if Huntley is now identifying as a woman. in which case I did the same as I would for any trans man or woman. ie not deliberately misgender them.

A lot of people are saying that Lily Madigan is a woman because
All trans women are women. Lily changed her name from Liam to Lily and wore a skirt to school.

OK to be very clear, I am not saying that at all. I do not agree with that analogy. However, my view is that if someone wants to present as the opposite gender and use a different name and pronouns, I will respect their wish to wear what they want and be called what they want because all humans should have that right. That does not have anything to do with whether someone has changed gender legally.

Lian Huntley (Lian being the feminine version of Ian) is therefore a woman

As I said, I do not agree with that viewpoint. But legally, Huntley can obtain a GRC and this has been the case nearly from the outset of his imprisonment. The reforms will make it easier to do so.

Both Lily and Lian have been on Sky News

Huntley has surely not been on Sky News recently in person?

"What a shame he didn't decide that he was a woman before he committed his sexually motivated murder of two ten year old girls." And raped and abused other women. He had form for this.