To tell my DCs "Don't even think about it"?

[inabizzlefam]

My Dcs seem to be under the impression that when they marry and have children, i'm going to provide them, as a "loving grandparent", with free childcare whilst they go to work.
AIBU in telling them that, whilst I have no problem with babysitting if they want to go out for an evening, they will have to get a full time childminder or Nanny in order to pursue their careers?

Yes...house prices are pretty high. BUT..perhaps we were unusual...I didn't expect..or get ...child care help. My parents worked when my eldest were born and weren't prepared to give it when the youngest was as we lived across town. They have helped with my siblings kids, but they live nearer and it's just the way it is.
When we were young, saving for our house, living in our house 9very poor then!) and when kids were little...we cut our cloth. Didn't expect to holiday abroad..couldn't afford it. Didn't eat out unless birthday or special occassion such as anniversary. Couldn't afford the cinema really. Luckily didn't need to afford to run a mobile phone as the first of my kids were pre mobile days. Didn't run new or posh cars. Didn't go to spas or beauticians etc, although did go to hairdressers. Looked for free things to do and money off if we could. Never ever expected to buy coffees etc everytime we went out.

Yes, it's hard being young and saving up for stuff. It was hard for us too. Sorry...I know houses are pricey..my daughter keeps tellling us how we had it easy. We didn't....but we expected less. It's not a fashionable view these days..but that's how it was. We all, me included me, "look after" our kids even when they are older a bit much...too much umbrella parenting. And to put it another way...if you don't want to look after your grandchildren all the time...why should you? You've done your bit of child caring for your own kids. Surely if you want to enjoy life without looking after little ones, which can be exhausting, you can now...it's your turn.

(also....are they going to let you live with them and look after you when you are old, forgettful and incontinent?! Probably not!)

....just seen raindrops and sparkles post..and yes....I agree...I would hope I can help out....but don't want it to be totally expected that I will be providing the bulk of the child care......neither myself or DH intend to do that....we have told our kids we will HELP...but it's our time now. Same as I tell my mum and dad to get out and enjoy life....they've worked hard for their retirement...time to enjoy it.

One set of our neighbours.
Grandparents, 70s have an annexe
Parents, 50s
Children, 20s

Five mercs and BMWs. House worth between 1.3 and 1.5 million. Three adults work full-time, one part-time.

They are Indian - they came with nothing, the parents had a corner shop, one son became a dentist one a doctor. Both grandchildren went to the local public school, both are doctors. One wonders if perhaps they have the right idea. Investing in one's family and their future.

I'd love to think that when my dc give me dgc that I'd be able to help and be a hands on gran. My ill health and disability probably mean I won't be capable of full time toddler wrangling, but I'd want to be as involved as possible, especially in an emergency. I remember my own in laws wouldn't even help when I was sick and in the hospital, and if I'm honest that did cause some resentment. I wouldn't want to put my ds's or future dil's in that predicament.

It isn't the fact of you giving them childcare if you can/want to, it's the ASSUMPTION that you will that is so offensive. I'm sure you'll help if you can, but they shouldn't assume this will definitely happen. It's almost as bad as assuming they can live with you free for life, along with partners, kids etc.

YANBU.

I'm always amazed at the threads on here where people think grandparents owe the parents of their grandchildren free childcare/loads of presents/attention whatever.

WARNING: if you are having unprotected sex with your partner, STOP doing it! Because you are not just likely to have a baby, you are taking on responsibility for all the babies that baby might go on to have, and if you don't, you are selfish and unreasonable. According to quite a few people on here.

Yanbu.

My parents were still working when my kids were little. And made it clear that they were not available for regular child care, as was their right.

I probably would help my children with theirs if I could. But it is likely that I'll still be working too!

It's great if you wanted to help. But perfectly ok not to want to.

Absolutely. I have no intention, in my 60s, with being saddled with my son's offspring. I want to enjoy my time not go back to crying babies, tiresome toddlers and changing nappies. If they want children they should be factoring in childcare.

I'm always amazed at the threads on here where people think grandparents owe the parents of their grandchildren free childcare/loads of presents/attention whatever.

Really? The commonest responses I see on here is that its utterly unreasonable to expect free care from grandparents. Look at some of the threads where the OP is actually paying for grandparent care and still being told they can't expect the DGP to do things as they would wish.

As I said upthread - from my observation if a DGP wants to help for maybe a day a week it can be great for everyone. More than that and it mostly caused tensions. Personally I've yet to meet one of "this generation" demanding free childcare from DGPs. Never met any in my own generation either.

It’s totally your choice but please make it fair all round. My Mum has always had my sister’s children loads more than mine. Totally denied it, then when presented with the evidence accused me of simply being jealous. Causes loads of resentment and sense of unfairness 😔

When my first child was born my parents took great pleasure in trumpeting to anyone who would listen how their days of bringing up kids was over. I wouldn’t have asked them anyway, they were shit parents. What pissed me off though was the years of child care they got out of me for my sibling. They never paid for child care from when she was three, I did it all. I took her to and from school. I looked after her every day during the school holiday and babysat two nights a week at least. So they never provided any child care for me but I sure did for them and I will for my own kids, if I am in a position to. I do not in any way judge those who don’t want to though, unless, like my parents you got your older children to do your childcare and then refused to do it back for them.
and then

As retirement ages increase, less and less people will be available to do this anyway

I'd love to be able to provide childcare for future grandchildren, but by the time I'm 70 and able to retire (also assuming all marbles and relevant body parts are intact) she will be 38 and I would imagine her children will be past the full time care requirement.

My DM and DD lived in France when I had my DD. So just not possible, my DFIL died before I met my DH. My DMIL was 82, scarcely able to walk and lived hundreds of miles away. However even if they had all been more able and available I would not have wanted them as my main childcare. My mum was willing to catch a flight and help out in an emergency. But would not have been as reliable as my childminder if she had been the primary child care. Particularly when my DD was diagnosed with late stage cancer and she was unable to leave him for more than half an hour for 6 months immediately after diagnosis until he died.
Ask your DC what plans they have for back up childcare if their main childcarer (you) is ill and cannot look after the little'uns.

None of DS's grandparents have ever looked after him, even for half an hour. They are all able bodied and have plenty of free time (mostly retired). DS barely recognises them.

I think it's incredibly sad when extended family are so selfish that they want no involvement in their grandchildren's lives. We will certainly have a very different attitude if we are lucky enough to be grandparents one day.

My mother would have been able to retire at 60, on a good pension.

I will retire almost a decade older, on a shit pension.

My generation may not be able to offer the support your / our mothers did.

I would love grandchildren. None of my 30's + children want their own.

Quite a generalisation about an entire generation of people in the op.
We have two grandmas nearby - we did our sums before I returned to work and calculated what we would need to pay in childcare making zero assumptions about free help. My lovely DM offered to have Dc one day per week, but they have flexible arrangements with childminder and nursery In case she can't or doesn't want to one week.
Other grandma not so keen which is fair enough- but will provide emergency cover for both DC.
Not everyone expects free childcare

Some posts on this thread make me so cross!! Interest rates were around 15% when we bought our first home. Luckily we didn't buy a flat in London - had it all set up to do and then decided against! Would probably never have recovered from the negative equity!

Yes, we traded up after 7 years and one baby and our house is worth about 3 times what we paid for it, but guess what, our two endowments underperformed so the mortgage wasn't cleared as we had planned for.

18 years of paying for full-time childcare which barely made it worth my while to work other than for my pension, by which time the first one was going to uni. Ok so I did get a small grant for uni in my time, but I paid for my postgrads myself.

DH and both work in the public sector so have had shit all payrises for many years.

So please don't tell us that our generation has had it easier! We moved into a bare house, newbuild, not even a wall painted. It was 3 months before we had a cooker and we did it up as we went along. We didn't have holidays, we had one car between us for years, and we had to live fairly frugally. That's not a statement of martyrdom in any way; it's just a fact.

In some ways my mother's generation may have had it 'easier' in that expectations were lower and most mothers didn't go out to work. However, I would hate to be washing the clothes in the twintub every Monday, and washing the cloth nappies in the Burco boiler and having to get them dried in the shittiest of weather. I can remember getting our first fridge. It's all relative.

Agree with touchmybum.

Completely agree, Touchmybum.

I could have written your post, except that I was a SAHM for years so we were really on our uppers.

And how about the one where all of us who went to university got full grants. Pah!

Jeanneweany, maybe they want them but they can't afford them?

www.allagents.co.uk/house-prices-from-1952/
House prices UK since 1957.

www.telegraph.co.uk/property/house-prices/the-state-of-the-uk-housing-market-in-five-charts/
Real wage comparison

The rise in house prices is important, but what really matters is its comparison with wages. According to a report by the Trades Union Congress, real wages in the UK have fallen 10.4pc in the years following the financial crisis, a decline matched in the advanced Western economies only by Greece.

This has exacerbated the divergence between real wages and house prices, which between 1989 and 1995 was shrinking. Since then, the trend has reversed. By early 2015, the average price of a house was five times the average annual wage. This is quite some leap from 1997, where a house cost little more than twice the average salary.

As Full Fact has observed, the gulf is widening with particular alacrity in London, where the ratio has increased from 3.7 to nine times average incomes.

This is just anecdotal, but my mum and dad bought a newly built house in the Dublin suburbs for about £2,000 in 1966, with an adjustable mortgage. Mum never had to stop being a sahm. The mortgage was paid off by about the mid 80s.

Mum's house could now fetch about €600,000. That is a X 3000 increase in value. Wages have not risen by that factor since 1966.

It is not really all relative.

But math, if your mum wanted to move house, she would be buying at today’s prices too. You only see the benefit if you downsize or step off the property ladder. Otherwise we are all still in the same boat.

House price comparison with wages has to be done in relation to interest rates. My house would have to rise 5 to 7 times in value before I would be paying the same amount in pounds each month.

She would be buying a small flat, and moving out of Dublin. She would pick up something for about €150k, with a nice kitchen and bathroom. The people who bought her house would spend at least another €100k on it, if the experience of other houses on the road that have sold is anything to go by - all have been extended and remodeled downstairs. The profile of people who move in is different altogether from that of the road in 1966. The latest neighbours are a barrister and a pharmacist. Back in the 60s we had a bus driver next door.

We are not all in the same boat - today's wages for people in their 20s and even 30s are not enough to hop aboard the property ladder. If my mum wanted to buy a house today based on the equivalent of Dad's 1966 income she would be just about able to afford a 45 year old caravan with an industrial estate on one side and a major motorway on the other, miles from Dublin.