How batshit do I need to go?

[anotherBadAvatar]

xmas Day at DM’s house yesterday- me, DH, DD1(3yrs) and DD2(6m).

She has a dog I’m not overly fond of. It’s neurotic, highly strung and not fabulously behaved. We have a dog too, for the record, so I’m not anti-dogs at all.

DD1 got v close to DM’s dog face yesterday, saying “hellooo doggy”, but not touching her, and the dog bit her lip. Not terribly, but there was no warning, and poor DD was understandably hysterical afterwards. I had just told DD1 to leave the dog alone when it happened.

This was not the first time DM’s dog has nipped DD1. The last time, she was about 18m old, when she grabbed the dog’s back to steady herself.

DD1 is used to dogs, and I know I should have kept her away from the dog, especially knowing it’s history, but it all happened so quickly. DM didn’t even offer an apology.

We’re back at home now, would I be U to tell her the children are never to be around her dog again?

cocacola how about these 'vulnerable children' are disciplined and removed ( or the dog removed) from the situation by a responsible adult ( ooooh dunno, could be its parent for example) before the poor dog is teased and poked enough into retaliation?!!?

Neh, it's only a dog. It shouldn't be around small humans. It isn't an equal rights matter, it's only an animal and needs to learn its place. Preferably not around vulnerable children. They matter more, surprised you don't know that, tbh.

"Maybe theDM didn't see? She was hosting.... busy maybe?"

So the dog should have been in another room. You should always assume cock ups will happen.

I'd be absolutely furious. At you.

Because this is 100% our fault.
You knew the history, you were in its home and you let a child get in its face.
Control your child. Train your child. Be a better owner parent.

You were U to expect a 3 year old to fully obey instructions. You should be supervising more closely.

Yes, the parent screwed up.

And so did the dog owner. It is wearily predictable that the owner of this dog is being completely absolved from responsibility.

Hmmm cocacola if it's only a dog and 'shouldn't be around small humans' then why didn't the BIG (in charge alpha humans) remove it away from their precious child??

Surprised you failed to think of that tbh

No Bertrand the parents..... 2 adults, screwed up. 2 of them

I'd love another dog owner to come on and accept responsibility for their dog's behaviour. The fact that they don't is what gives the rest of us a bad name.

"No Bertrand the parents..... 2 adults, screwed up. 2 of them" fair enough-didn't notice both parents were there.

And the dog owner?

I've said I would take responsibility for the behaviour of my dog. I wouldn't have her off lead with a small child she didn't know. She's a sweetheart but she's a giant breed and Young.

I agree that the dog owner was at fault as well, equally with OP. BOTH should have been more careful.

I do keep my very jumpy, very never-left-the-puppy stage dog out of the way when the house is busy, because she gets stressed and it’s not fair on her and I can’t guarantee how she’ll react under stress.

I also expect parents not to allow their children to torment my dog. If I saw them allowing it I’d be the one going batshit.

Legally the owner had ultimate responsibility. If the child had been badly bitten and needed hospital admittance, the police would have been called. Given the fact the dog has bitten before, the owners would have been in trouble!

I have an elderly dog and when any dc visit, she is out in another room, away from the dc.

It’s my responsibility in my home to protect the child and to ensure they don’t have accesss to my elderly dog.

I agree with Bertrand and Common. I don't think people should keep dogs that have demonstrated biting behaviour like this.

I really struggle with this when we visit my PILs, who have a dog. My youngest DC is 19 mo and at the perfect height for the dog to nip her face. I've just spent two days walking behind her all the time as she totters around, making sure she doesn't go near the dog. We don't have a dog so obviously she's (DD) not aware of the dangers and isn't old enough to understand about leaving the dog alone. My PILs feel that it's unkind on the dog to keep her in a separate room, so I've kept up an exhausting vigil trying to keep DD safe. I find it absolutely extraordinary that they seem to value the dog over the safety of their DGD. Obviously when she's older - like her siblings - it will be fine, but at the moment I find it very difficult. But their attitude seems to bear out the tenor of the responses here: it's not the dog owner's responsibility to keep their dog away from young children, even when the dog has a history of biting. Madness.

Yes the dog owner has a responsibility to keep a dog which has bitten before away from small children. Equally it’s utterly batshit to absolve the mother who watched all of this unfold without physically stepping in of any responsibility!

If you can't adequately parent your children to stop them scaring a dog like that then you absolutely should go batshit, at yourself. Your poor DD1 and poor dog for being put in that situation.

Why on earth did you let your kid near the dog when the dog has bitten them before? There shouldn’t have been a second opportunity - your child and the dog shouldn’t have been in the same room after the first incident. So yes, YABVU to go “bat shit” as it’s your lack of due diligence that caused the second incident. No, YANBU to say that you and the dog owner need to actively keep the dog and the child apart in future.

Hmmm cocacola if it's only a dog and 'shouldn't be around small humans' then why didn't the BIG (in charge alpha humans) remove it away from their precious child??

Precious child? How nasty are you? Vile post.

So that’s 3 of us who take responsibility for out dogs’ behaviour. Joe many, really, compared to all the “not my fault”ers. Who have apparantly never screwed up as parents.

I’ve screwed up as a parent and as a dog owner. Our dog tried to nip DD when she was little and accidentally landed on the dog’s sore paw. Thankfully I was in the way and managed to intercept the bite.

She’s never done it before that and never done it since, however it was an enormous wake up call to get my shit together. Since that day my kids and my dog have never been left in the same room together without an adult.

So the 3yo was being ‘incredibly irritating’ and ‘incredibly aggressive’ for getting too close to the dog to say hello. That hysteria is all that is wrong with irresponsible dog owners.

I’ve actually had a rethink since my earlier post in which I said YWBU to blame your mum because some dog lovers do actually make it awkward for parents to keep their DCs safe either by refusing to take the dog out of the equation by keeping it behind closed doors or doing this 🙄 when the parent follows the child to keep it safe (there seems to be more of a focus on protecting the dog on this thread so it doesn’t get stressed). I do think your mum should have had the dog out of the way in the first instance.

My solution is simply to keep away from people who value their dogs as equals with or superior to children. Suits me. More difficult when it’s your own mother though.

Bertrand I take responsibility for my dog. That is why I would not put her in a situation with a child where that child could invade her space and potentially provoke her into taking evasive or defensive action. So I would expect the parent of a child to keep it away from her, and I would keep my dog away from a child. If the parent were in my home and couldn't stop the child from hassling my dog, then I'd ask them to leave. Needless to say, I would always prevent my dog from hassling a child, if she tried to do so.

Yet I've had lots of children come up to my dog and show her unsolicited attention - everything from respectful attention (fine for us, but still risky if you don't know the dog) to grabbing and trying to kiss her (really fucking dangerous). Luckily, my dog has (touch wood) never shown any aggression at all, but I would never assume that to hold, and it shocks me how utterly unaware some parents seem to be about the danger that any animal can pose to a child. When I've gently tried to point out to people that their child should be taught not to approach animals in that way, people have been really arsey and defensive. It's all very well getting upset after a child has been nipped/scratched/bitten, but if you don't want that to happen in the first place, then prevention is better than recriminations after the event.

OP I don't think it was your fault. The dog should never have been in the house! It had bitten a toddler previously and therefore cannot be trusted around small children. Your mil was completely irresponsible to have it in the house when her grandchild was present! You can't hover over a child all day to prevent her going near the dog. Do all the posters saying it's OPs fault think the child should be on reins all day, or confined to a corner at mil's house, in case she approaches the snappy dog?

I would refuse to take my child back there unless the dog was securely shut in one room/garden.