How batshit do I need to go?

[anotherBadAvatar]

xmas Day at DM’s house yesterday- me, DH, DD1(3yrs) and DD2(6m).

She has a dog I’m not overly fond of. It’s neurotic, highly strung and not fabulously behaved. We have a dog too, for the record, so I’m not anti-dogs at all.

DD1 got v close to DM’s dog face yesterday, saying “hellooo doggy”, but not touching her, and the dog bit her lip. Not terribly, but there was no warning, and poor DD was understandably hysterical afterwards. I had just told DD1 to leave the dog alone when it happened.

This was not the first time DM’s dog has nipped DD1. The last time, she was about 18m old, when she grabbed the dog’s back to steady herself.

DD1 is used to dogs, and I know I should have kept her away from the dog, especially knowing it’s history, but it all happened so quickly. DM didn’t even offer an apology.

We’re back at home now, would I be U to tell her the children are never to be around her dog again?

Surprised at the replies here. I am with the op on this. We love dogs. Our dog was like a child to us. However, I don’t believe in owning aggressive dogs who can’t tell a threat from a curious friendly child. Yes, any dog can bite if provoked. But many dogs are very gentle and smart enough to not bite a little child. Our springer knew when to bark at a threat and knew when he was dealing with little children. A child could pull his ears and get in his face (and no, I didn’t encourage anyone to do this to any dog) and he was as gentle as can be. We were very careful to select a smart gentle dog and observe him closely in situations to have a reasonable expectation of gentleness around children. He treated our son with the utmost gentleness even when he would “get” in his face or play closely with him. A child will reach out to a dog before you can stop what’s happening sometimes, it’s not the op’s fault. What’s at fault is choosing to own a dog that is aggressive and liable to bite or maul a child. The people who own dogs that are clearly aggressive should contain their dogs at all times and be held accountable when their dogs injure and kill children and people, which sadly is happening too often now. Instead of protecting people from burglars, aggressive dogs attack innocent people with no provocation at all. A person should be able to walk down a street or a child visit a relative without fear of getting bitten or mauled by a vicious dog. It is irresponsible of the op’s mother in my opinion to own a dog like that especially when she has young grandchildren that she expects to visit her home. If I were op’s mother, I would not have that particular dog in my house and I would feel terrible that my dog did that to my grandchild.

I find it extraordinary -and worrying- that people think that dog owners are not responsible ultimately for their dogs’ actions. Yes, in an ideal world, people would know how to behave round dogs and in an ideal world no parent would ever screw up. But in the real world they don’t -and they do. So my dog-my responsibility.

And your kid, your responsibility too yes?

Bty, before anyone starts ranting about me owning a 'vicious' dog, he's a little darling, that was horrifically abused before coming to us. He has came on brilliantly but had got tangled in his coat, so was terrified as he was previously trussed up in rope. I took a chance untangling him and paid the price.

Do not go apeshit at your mother, op. You could ask her to put the dog in an adjoining room, behind a baby gate, as you can't trust that your daughter won't annoy it. You didn't say what your mother's response was, at the time. What did she say?

I agree with Bertrand well said!

It's not a viscous dog Priscilla it's just a dog. Even the most trusted soppy family pet could behave like that. Children and dogs do not mix unless the child has had the dog from a puppy and they've grown up together and the adults have taught the dog and the child to be respectful of each other.
OP, you should have been more closely supervising, not expecting a 3 year old to do what she was told with no real understanding of dog behaviour. Leaning over them is dominating and not a smart idea for a child. YWNBU to not let them share space with this dog again, but I can't believe you let them share space this time when it's already happened once!

@stitchglitched
Nobody thinks it's ok that a dog bites. What many have said is that getting in the face of a dog is hugely aggressive to them. I would never let my kids do this to a dog. Dogs squaring up and eyeing each other is prelude to a fight.
The dog felt threatened and reacted.
I wouldn't have my giant breed wandering around with a small baby and a 3 year old. She would be on a lead but I would also expect the parent of the children to keep them out of her face.
My dog is a sweetheart. But she's a dog. She doesn't want to be climbed on and she doesn't want to be grabbed or have a child shouting in her face.

Never let small children get close to any dog, and never leave them unsupervised. Even the gentlest of dogs can bite if they are frightened, and small children don't know how to behave around dogs. It isn't the child's fault, it isn't the dog's, it's just a situation that should always be avoided.

Yes, my kid, my responsibility. But parents screw up. It happens. And if you have a dog, particularly a neurotic, highly strung dog that has already bitten, you assume that parents are going to screw up and take it as a bonus if they don’t.

My dog is as soft as butter, so laid back she’s practically horizontal, loves children, and I simply cannot imagine her biting ant more than I can imagine her flying. But I assume she might. Any dog can. And because I am in charge of an animal that could permanently scar a child’s face or worse, I take responsibility for making sure that won’t happen. No use apportioning blame in the plastic surgeon’s waiting room.

Gets me that she ineffectually said to leave the dog alone

Didn't enforce it....just said it

You had the chance to prevent this

I'm amazed at these responses. A nippy dog is not a good pet to have in a house where there are regularly children. The dog has bitten this child twice (I wouldn't be surprised if it has bitten other children that the OP doesn't know about), it should be put down before it maims or kills a child. The fact that the owner won't keep the dog away from visiting children shows she is not a good owner who doesn't think about her dog (why put your dog into a stressful situation where they are likely to bite?) which also makes it likely the dog will bite again. If your DM won't have the dog put down/rehoused with adults/put away when you visit with your children don't visit. It's not worth the risk.

People are over sentimental about their pets and forget they are animals driven by instinct. I grew up on a farm, dogs that worried sheep were shot, there's no way a dog that bit a child would not be put down (and yes, both my father and brother have put down dogs that have nipped when stressed). Shock news: dogs are less important than humans.

My sister in laws dog bit my 10yr old dd in between her eyes last year.- unprovoked- jumped up from ground level as dd was trying to leave the house. This is a dog that has bitten my neice twice before- one time ending up in hospital with a torn lip and she was advised to have the dog put down but she didnt.
Sil burst into tears at the time, ran upstairs mumbled an apology and that's all the apology or explanation we got until days later my dh demanded she come round and talk about this (the incident was at mils house which is next door to ours, sil had not shown her face sInce not even to check dd was ok).
By that point I was soooo angry (probably mainly at sil's poor handling of the situation), that I went batshit.
She hasn't spoken to me since.
But we haven't seen the dog since either(she still has it but keeps it shut up when she comes). My dd's safety comes above everything. I wish I had handled things more maturely but the bottom line is that the dog is the responsibility of the owner. My job is to protect my child.
Btw I have 2 large and bouncy rescue dogs myself but if they bit a child I would at very least rehome them.
My children come first.
.

many dogs are very gentle and smart enough to not bite a little child That notion is why many children get bit. ANY dog, no matter how gentle, can bite, therefore it's up to the adults to teach children how to behave around a dog.

Why did you let your 3 year old stick her face up close to the dog's? You got away lightly this time

Yes if it's bitten before why did you let your child up close .....

One of the stock phrases attributed to dog owners is “He’s never done that before.

If you are in charge of something potentially dangerous a) assume it will do something unpredictable it has never done before and b) people will screw up.

“many dogs are very gentle and smart enough to not bite a little child”

Utter bollocks.

If it has bitten before and is of a nature that will bite a child just for getting too close (not even touching it) then why the hell hasn't the owner taken any action to safeguard visitors?

“Yes if it's bitten before why did you let your child up close .....”

Because she screwed up.

Why did the owner of a dog known to bite let it close up to a child?

Wow at this thread. I agree with BertrandRussell.

Maybe theDM didn't see? She was hosting.... busy maybe?

The kid however, had not one but TWO fully functioning parents who could have taken action?

64BooLane

Agreed

The DM knows her dog has a history of biting, it shouldn't have been around in the first place. Even a well behaved, being shadowed by it's parents 3 year old could make a loud noise or trip and accidently knock into the dog. I'm still shocked that people seem to accept getting close to a dog and saying hello is sufficient 'provocation' that a bite on the face is to be expected.

We don't have dogs but my kid has had it drummed into her that she MUST talk to a dog's owner and ask their permission to approach a dog.

go apeshit at yourself 'op'
you knew what this dog was like yet you still allowed your child up close by its mush, child should have been kept away and mutt and owner needs training