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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

How batshit do I need to go?

233 replies

anotherBadAvatar · 26/12/2017 13:54

xmas Day at DM’s house yesterday- me, DH, DD1(3yrs) and DD2(6m).

She has a dog I’m not overly fond of. It’s neurotic, highly strung and not fabulously behaved. We have a dog too, for the record, so I’m not anti-dogs at all.

DD1 got v close to DM’s dog face yesterday, saying “hellooo doggy”, but not touching her, and the dog bit her lip. Not terribly, but there was no warning, and poor DD was understandably hysterical afterwards. I had just told DD1 to leave the dog alone when it happened.

This was not the first time DM’s dog has nipped DD1. The last time, she was about 18m old, when she grabbed the dog’s back to steady herself.

DD1 is used to dogs, and I know I should have kept her away from the dog, especially knowing it’s history, but it all happened so quickly. DM didn’t even offer an apology.

We’re back at home now, would I be U to tell her the children are never to be around her dog again?

OP posts:
halfwitpicker · 26/12/2017 15:18

Another case of people being unable to decide on the most obvious of solutions.

Notreallyarsed · 26/12/2017 15:20

The dog has bitten a child more than once and the owner has not either had the dog destroyed or even voluntarily kept it away from children full stop.

And yet OP allowed her toddler to get close to the dog’s face despite knowing it had bitten before. This didn’t happen to OP, it happened to her child because none of the adults around did what they were supposed to!

Notreallyarsed · 26/12/2017 15:20

And I hate the term “destroyed” it’s really horrible.

CornflakeHomunculus · 26/12/2017 15:24

I agree with Widdlin that it would be wise at this point to make sure you know what to look for in terms of signs a dog is getting uncomfortable with the situation they're in.

It's highly unusual for a dog to bite or nip with absolutely no warning whatsoever. Often when people believe that's the case what has really happened is that they've not been aware of the warnings the dog has been giving because they don't actually know what they're looking for. You've only got to look at all the "cute" videos that go viral involving children and clearly unhappy dogs to see just how many people don't know what a stressed dog looks like. A great many dogs will tolerate mishandling and never escalate beyond the subtle warning signs ("My childhood dog let us climb all over them and never so much as growled." etc.) but some won't and it's neither fair on the dog to expect them to put up with something that stresses them out nor a risk worth taking in terms of them potentially escalating to biting.

The Liam J Perk Foundation has some great information about canine stress signals and there are many other excellent resources on this link.

PersianCatLady · 26/12/2017 15:28

Only one person at fault here and it isn't DM

PersianCatLady · 26/12/2017 15:29

Kirk1
The OP isn't blaming herself though, she is blaming her DM

JenniferYellowHat1980 · 26/12/2017 15:33

It depends on your DM’s response really. If she were to offer or at least agree to keep the dog behind a closed door when you see her then there’s no issue (YWBU to blame her for yesterday’s incident given that your DD got in the dog’s face having already been nipped once before).

What happened in my family was this - similar incident not witnessed by host who didn’t entirely believe the account of events. Host became a bit shirty when asked to keep dog away during visits and didn’t do so the next time. The whole dog-mad family sided with the host and I haven’t felt welcome ever since - I even heard in the grapevine soon afterwards that I would not be welcome at one family member’s home. I have become the black sheep so be prepared for this as a possibility. People can be blinkered about their animals but they think I’m stupid for putting child safety first. My DCs are old enough to take care now but the damage is done in terms of family relationships.

Fanciedachange17 · 26/12/2017 15:36

Yabu to have a go at your DM. You are responsible for the situation for not separating a 3 year old and a known naggy dog.= who has a track record for nipping.
Your DD should have listened to you and as you already have an animal, been taught how to act around them.
Your DM could have put the dog outside for your visit.

If my dog had bitten a child without apparent provocation I would have her put to sleep. They are not human, do not experience human love although devoted dog owners insist they do and you must remember they are animals and can be unpredictable.
(Our dog once nipped a child but this one had launched herself at the dog and fallen on top of her which scared and hurt the animal who bit in defence so I didn't really blame her)

VivaLeBeaver · 26/12/2017 15:36

I used to have a nippy, bitey dog. Only small but quite vicious. So when visitors were over he was either on a lead with me holding him or muzzled, often both. I’d have been mortified if he bit a visitor.

BertrandRussell · 26/12/2017 15:38

I'm going to make myself incredibly unpopular by saying that people should not keep neurotic, highly strung dogs. Or if they do, it's their responsibility to keep them away from people.

Tinselistacky · 26/12/2017 15:40

As your dm has no regard for your dd safety then the buck falls at your feet. Keep your dd away from the dog if mil won't keep the dog away from your dd.

Mummyoflittledragon · 26/12/2017 15:41

My dd was bitten by a relations dog when she was a baby. I didn’t see any signals as the dog was lying on its back, face away from her (and me), dd sitting still, gently patting its tummy. Owner holding the collar (not hard) supposedly to protect dd. It flicked its head up and back and bit dd on the face just beside her eye. She has a scar. Dd then no longer allowed anywhere near the dog.

The owners really didn’t take responsibility. Idiots. Ultimately I should have trusted my instinct that the dog was potentially dangerous. But I tried my best to trust the owner to hold the dogs collar.

You know your mother’s dog is aggressive. You haven’t taught your dd how to be around it. My Dd wasn’t in this dog’s face. Yours was. I really don’t understand why you would allow your dd anywhere near the dog. Or in any dogs face.

Wolfiefan · 26/12/2017 15:44

Cornflake that Liam J Perk link is great. Thanks. I find many people can't read dogs! We have an issue with people thinking they can pet my giant dog and she couldn't possible be scared of them as she's so big. But she is scared! I've told a few to back off and leave her alone!

HidingFromTheWorld · 26/12/2017 15:54

Your fault. You know it. Poor dog.

crunchymint · 26/12/2017 16:01

I agree many people can't read dogs body language. I see people sharing what they think are cute videos of their children playing with the dog, and the dog is to me clearly very unhappy

Clandestino · 26/12/2017 16:05

Go batshit at yourself, it's your fault.

momjeansep · 26/12/2017 16:06

Your fault for letting your child get so close to the animal.

Eifla · 26/12/2017 16:07

Entirely your fault.

Poor dog - and poor kid.

TatterdemalionAspie · 26/12/2017 16:09

WTF were you doing letting your child get right in the dog's face?? Especially when your child has previously scared/hurt the dog and the dog has responded by snapping! Was that not enough of a warning to you that you'd keep the child away from the dog? Confused

Not sure who you're planning on going batshit at. Try keeping a closer eye/hand on your child, and talk to your mum about what measures can be taken to keep the dog and children separate (stair gate/ crate for the dog/ not taking your children to your DM's). And you really need to train your child not to get in a dog's face - I see it so often and it makes my blood run cold. Sad

momjeansep · 26/12/2017 16:10

@BertrandRussell I totally agree

Dailystuck71 · 26/12/2017 16:11

Are you coming back OP?

placebobebo · 26/12/2017 16:14

You know this was your fault.
You were aware of the dogs history and in both cases you allowed a small child with no ability to read the dogs body language to get close enough to be in harms way.
Your DM should manage the dogs behaviour by keeping it in a separate room away from unpredictable (as far as the dog is concerned) children.
You should manage you DDs behaviour by not letting her get in the same room as an unpredictable dog.
You let her get too close.

Mulch · 26/12/2017 16:14

Family member had some typical yappy nippy chihuahuas, whenever visitors come they'd be kept in a different room. However if they were in the room I'd be watching my child like a hawk

HermioneAndTheSniffle · 26/12/2017 16:27

YANBU.
The children and the dog need to be separate at all time.

Noting to do with your DM or even with the dog itself.
It’s just that it’s clear that it’s unsafe to have the dog and the dcs in the same room.

Also please, don’t make it your dd fault for not listening to you leaving the dog alone.
She is only 3yo.
The issue is with the dog being present and unreliable around children.

HermioneAndTheSniffle · 26/12/2017 16:29

The thing is too, with two dcs that are very young. One dc that is used to a more reliable dog etc... it’s just impossible to say you need to keep a close Eire and avoid x and y.
It’s impossible to keep a close eye on TWO dcs at age 100% do the time.

Which is why the dog needs to be kept away.

TBH I’m surprised no one has shouted the dog is dangerous and need to be put down after bitting a child TWICE. This seems to be the way these threads usually go on MN.