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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Angry at friend about abortion and the situation she’s put me in?

322 replies

BornInSydneyy · 26/12/2017 11:07

My friend has had numerous abortions. All with the sane boyfriend .., I’m guessing about 8 at this point.

I try not to judge because I’m very pro choice. But I don’t agree with abortion as a form of contraception .. it’s very conflicting.

She’s now lied to family members that I’ve gone with her to support her during the abortion and I’ve had her family messaging me about it ... this all happened in the space of 10 minutes! ... I’m so angry. I want nothing to do with the lies, aibu?

OP posts:
TSSDNCOP · 26/12/2017 11:32

If she had had one termination and you'd received the messages, do you think you'd feel as you do about the messages.

You say yourself, you have conflict regarding the number of terminations. Is your anger worsened as a consequence?

If you feel you must respond, although I wouldn't because I couldn't be arsed with the drama I would write "I have not accompanied X to any appointments regarding her pregnancy." Then block all the numbers.

JingsMahBucket · 26/12/2017 11:34

Folks, the abortions aren't the issue the OP cares about, it's the friend's lie to her family that involves the OP. Move on already.

OP, YANBU. I would send Finola's message and then change all their individual ringers to silent.

drspouse · 26/12/2017 11:36

Definitely reply to family as suggested.
I would worry as a) it can't be a good long term health solution compared to using efficient contraception and b) I would be concerned the boyfriend is blocking her access to contraception - if she has reasons for not using female contraception, then he should be stepping up and taking responsibility, so I assume he's refusing to use a condom.

Gwenhwyfar · 26/12/2017 11:38

"The only reason I can think of for objecting to multiple abortions is if you secretly think that abortion IS wrong, but that women should be allowed one get-out-of-jail-free card, then after that they've used that up, they ought to go through with the pregnancy as punishment for not learning their lesson."

No, not at all. There are plenty of reasons to object to multiple abortions. Presumably they were on the NHS so a waste of public money and also her own money in travelling to them, taking time off work. It's a procedure, so not something to be done lightly to your body either.
It's clearly better to use contraception. Not for 'moral' reasons.

To me, it indicates that the person has some kind of wish to get pregnant but not to have the child and need psychological help. Counselling might work out cheaper in the long run.

IsaSchmisa · 26/12/2017 11:39

YABU to judge her about her abortions. It's none of your business. YABU to refer to abortion as a form of contraception, since it isn't. Contraception prevents pregnancy.

YANBU in the slightest to object to being dragged into this. She's well out of order there.

ijustwannadance · 26/12/2017 11:40

Whilst abortion is an option everyone should have, I would also worry about my friends mental health or relationship if she had to keep having them instead of sorting out one of the many options of birth control that are available these days.

Gwenhwyfar · 26/12/2017 11:41

" would be concerned the boyfriend is blocking her access to contraception - if she has reasons for not using female contraception, then he should be stepping up and taking responsibility, so I assume he's refusing to use a condom."

I hadn't thought of that. I have read about women who have multiple abortions for psychological reasons though. They have some instinct making them want to get pregnant, but cannot really have a child. It's also possible that some kind of unprocessed grief for one pregnancy is leading them to want to get pregnant again leading to a vicious cycle.

JeNeBaguetteRien · 26/12/2017 11:47

I agree with Sendin.

Basically if one abortion is OK, then a) at what point do they stop being OK (second? Third? Tenth?) and what is it that happens in subsequent abortions that make it wrong that wasn't present the first time?

I would however be worried about my friend and the effect of 8 medical procedures on her, although we don't have an idea of the timescale. I'd want to explore with my friend whether she'd tried contraception that would save her having to go through this repeatedly. Or if there was any coercion, either in the repeated pregnancies or repeated terminations, but other than checking she was okay the choice is hers.

A termination is a valid choice if the woman does not want to continue with the pregnancy for any reason.
I would imagine a termination costs the NHS less than a pregnancy and birth.

drspouse · 26/12/2017 11:57

It's also possible that some kind of unprocessed grief for one pregnancy is leading them to want to get pregnant again leading to a vicious cycle.
And that hadn't occurred to me but it's also a reason to be worried about your friend.

onalongsabbatical · 26/12/2017 12:02

I would be extremely concerned for any woman who's had 8 abortions, because I'd be worried that someone's life was being managed in such a way that they apparently were unable or prevented from stopping themselves getting pregnant so many times. Either, as people have suggested, her own psychological issues or coercion on the part of the man.
This is not being judgemental about abortion, which of course should be the right of any woman at any time in any circumstances up to a reasonable point in pregnancy (not right up to birth, IMO).

But to watch a friend put herself through this so many times would upset me, and I'd want to understand why it was happening and whether she needed help of some kind.

lalliella · 26/12/2017 12:03

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Ellisandra · 26/12/2017 12:08

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Ellisandra · 26/12/2017 12:12

I've just reported your post with this message:
I don't think it's in the spirit of a site supporting women, to have idiots calling women who have abortions baby killers

Fitbitironic · 26/12/2017 12:12

To me, it indicates that the person has some kind of wish to get pregnant but not to have the child and need psychological help.

I'd be worried that someone's life was being managed in such a way that they apparently were unable or prevented from stopping themselves getting pregnant so many times. Either, as people have suggested, her own psychological issues or coercion on the part of the man.

And also that it indicated they were not mature or intelligent enough to use reliable contraception (if there were no physical reasons why they couldn't ), which would make me wonder if they were mature enough to be having this sexual relationship at all... But you would know this better than us, OP.

Gwenhwyfar · 26/12/2017 12:13

"I would imagine a termination costs the NHS less than a pregnancy and birth."

But much more than contraception. There's also a cost to the woman if she doesn't live in a town big enough to have an abortion clinic/big hospital. Some counselling would be more cost-effective imo.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 26/12/2017 12:22

I agree with onalongsabbatical.

Maelstrop · 26/12/2017 12:24

I've just reported your post with this message:
I don't think it's in the spirit of a site supporting women, to have idiots calling women who have abortions baby killers

I think she’s entitled to her opinion, actually, particularly as someone’s who’s encountered miscarriages and struggled to conceive, this post must be really hard to read.

I find it shocking that someone’s having repeated abortions and I’m very pro-choice. To say careless minimises just how poor this woman has been with her choices. Get some bloody reliable contraception and stop using the NHS as a flipping convenience.

GinSoddenWhore · 26/12/2017 12:25

Fuck off with that baby killing bollocks.

NotACleverName · 26/12/2017 12:28

Better to have the baby and give it to a childless couple.

Women should not have to act as broodmares for those who struggle to conceive. Fuck off with the baby killing nonsense.

Tistheseason17 · 26/12/2017 12:29

I'm not sure OP wanted this to be an abortion debate.
FWIW - I'm pro choice BUT I respect freedom of speech and have no issue respecting each view whilst maintaining my own position.

Now, back to the question from OP....
OP simply ignore the messages from her family etc. Better to not get involved with whatever lies she is telling. You can then make it clear with her when you speak to her next.

formerbabe · 26/12/2017 12:31

No, not at all. There are plenty of reasons to object to multiple abortions. Presumably they were on the NHS so a waste of public money and also her own money in travelling to them, taking time off work

Well it's far cheaper than ante natal care on the NHS, cost of the delivery, child benefit for 18 years, state education, health care throughout the child's life, tax credits etc etc.

Lizzie48 · 26/12/2017 12:40

I hadn't thought of that. I have read about women who have multiple abortions for psychological reasons though. They have some instinct making them want to get pregnant, but cannot really have a child. It's also possible that some kind of unprocessed grief for one pregnancy is leading them to want to get pregnant again leading to a vicious cycle.

This is true of my adopted DDs' birth mother. She's obsessed with getting pregnant despite knowing that she won't be able to look after the baby. She has some church background so she might have been given the idea that abortion is wrong so she has to go through with the pregnancy. (This part may not be true but why she would keep doing it to herself I can't imagine. It's just so sad.)

I also wonder whether her boyfriend won't use condoms or let her use contraception? I'm involved in a project for Central Asian women some of whom end up having ten or more abortions because they're not allowed to use contraception if their husbands don't want them to.

She could surely go on the implant?

KurriKurri · 26/12/2017 12:41

Can I ask why she lied ? Why did she want family members to think you went with her? Have they expressed concerns that she is going through these procedures on her own? Are they wondering why her boyfriend is not supporting her and do they therefore have concerns about her relationship or how he is treating her?

I am pro choice, but I would be concerned as to why the woman is repeatedly finding herself in the situation where she needs to use abortion as a form of contraception, and why she needs to lie to her family about what is going on. I have a picture in my mind (which may be totally untrue) of the poor woman having to go through repeated abortions alone with no support and I would want to know why she keeps getting pregnant and why her boyfriend is not helping her. What contraception are they using, etc.

I think for this reason you should tell her family ' I'm sorry there must have been crossed wires, I didn;t accompany X to the clinic'. Then her family can try to support her knowing she was alone.

Being pro choice and supporting her in her decisions, doesn't mean you can't offer support and help for her to think about other options. It's not much of a choice if she thinks the only form of contraception is abortion, or is being co erced into a pattern of behaviour. The whole situation sounds worrying to me Sad

KateAdiesEarrings · 26/12/2017 12:42

But it's not cheaper than taking the pill, or having an implant or using condoms . . . Hmm

Ellisandra · 26/12/2017 12:49

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
But there is a time and place for those opinions.

Want to book an appointment with your MP to give your view on abortion and have them lobby parliament to denude women's right? Fill your boots, it's a democracy.

Stand with a "baby killer" placard outside an abortion clinic harrassimg women? Fuck off.

I believe that coming onto threads on a site that supports women, a thread which is not abortion debate club, and spouting "baby killer" crap is closer to your placard waving cunts than the MP lobbyists.

This is the wrong place.

Many women have abortions, and a great many of them had conflicting emotions about it. And it's not fair to throw that kind of emotive, judgemental, offensive crap around on here.

And as I said - I've suffered miscarriages, and had IVF, and have never had an abortion.

No person should ever call another person a baby killer on this site.