Angry at friend about abortion and the situation she’s put me in?

[BornInSydneyy]

My friend has had numerous abortions. All with the sane boyfriend .., I’m guessing about 8 at this point.

I try not to judge because I’m very pro choice. But I don’t agree with abortion as a form of contraception .. it’s very conflicting.

She’s now lied to family members that I’ve gone with her to support her during the abortion and I’ve had her family messaging me about it ... this all happened in the space of 10 minutes! ... I’m so angry. I want nothing to do with the lies, aibu?

... and some of us use "females" for women due to a scientific background, and to avoid confusion as "women" now includes males. (Not that I agree with the post in question!)

First, abortion is not a form of contraception, I am pro choice, but 8 is way too many, plus she is damaging any changes of her having children in the future.

Her family have no right to nosey in her private business, you tell them that you are not prepared to discuss it. If you don't want to support her with this, then you do not have to, you can tell her that you cannot support her.

I absolutely agree, BabsCabsIsLocal. So often on here, if you even slightly challenge the pro-choice mantra, another poster will accuse you of being anti women, anti abortion or even a man trolling the thread! I imagine there are a lot of women who would genuinely take offence at the idea someone having as many as 8 abortions, thereby treating it as a form of contraception. That doesn't mean that we're saying that abortion shouldn't be available to women who need it.

That's if the story is actually genuine at all, which I do question.

It’s not a form of contraception, no. Contra means against, so contraception is literally against or preventing conception. An abortion aborts - stops, terminates - a pregnancy going any further forward. HTH.

I agree with Lizzie48

The story seems a bit far fetched. Unless the "friend" is going to a different abortion clinic every time you would have thought that someone would have advised her about contraception. It can't be good for her to have so many terminations.

They do, but you are to obligated to take it.

They advised me to have the injection and I refused. There are literally hundreds of women every day going through the process.

"The story seems a bit far fetched."

It's well known that some people have multiple abortions.

"Unless the "friend" is going to a different abortion clinic every time you would have thought that someone would have advised her about contraception."

It's unlikely that the friend doesn't know about contraception options, isn't it? Psychological issues seem much more likely to me.

"It can't be good for her to have so many terminations."

Of course not.

"It's well known that some people have multiple abortions."

Is it? As many as that?

theres pro-choice and then there is just
insanity. 8 abortions is INSANE.

medical abortions are incredibly painful, and surgical abortions come with the GA risks. defending a womans choice does not mean it should be acceptable to have abortions as she wants because she can.

why is she getting pregnant so often?

Admittedly I don’t know anyone who has had eight, but I know two women who have had five and four respectively and I’ve had two.

But esk,in practice, yes, that is what it means.

Yes, it often indicates a chaotic lifestyle, abusive relationship(s), MH problems. But those same factors that contribute towards multiple abortions are ones that mean it’s not a good idea to bring a baby into the world.thats the alternative. Eight abortions or eight unwanted children.

"Is it? As many as that?"

Yes. Obviously not the norm, but some people.

"why is she getting pregnant so often?"

I keep suggesting psychological issues, but nobody wants to agree with that, for some reason. I can't see what else would be causing it apart from the other suggestion of a controlling partner who doesn't let her use contraception.

"thats the alternative. Eight abortions or eight unwanted children."

Yes, but why isn't she being offered counselling. Contraception obviously isn't being used adequately so counselling or even sterilisation if that's what the friend wants should be considered.

Counselling isn’t a magic pill. There are plenty of people who it doesn’t help at all, and in some cases it makes conditions worse.

Reallytired - depends on the quality though doesn't it. Not sure how it could make the situation much worse here.

Well, the problem is that people don’t have unlimited time and money to shop around for ‘quality’ counselling (which is highly subjective anyway.) Mostly, it’s a few sessions on the NHS you have to wait months for.

Here is an article about when counselling can make people feel worse and agitate pre existing conditions, but it isn’t just about it being ‘worse’ but sometimes it simply isn’t helpful.

Really, yes but the NHS should offer better qualify counselling.

Counselling for myself (not abortion related admittedly) made my depression and anxiety MUCH worse before it got better.

The reality is opening up the old wounds and memories were painful especially when you’ve tried so hard not to think of them. I can however say it was successful for ME, but I can understand how people can’t go through it and stop the sessions leaving them with open wounds and unprocessed emotions

How is your friend dealing with 8 abortions emotionally? Is she mentally capable of dealing with contraception. Have you spoken to her about it?

But Gwen, it’s a subjective call at the best of times. I’m not saying counselling is never helpful, but it isn’t going to be the magical knitting needle that sews everything back together. There are some shite counsellors. Some are counselling because they were vulnerable themselves and believe earnestly it is The Answer. It isn’t. It’s a space to sort your head out.

Both the women I know who had four/five abortions had chaotic lives, were ‘off the rails’ and abusing alcohol and drugs. Counselling wasn’t a magic solution for them. But a combination of nine babies wouldn’t have been either!

I'm definitely not disagreeing about the possibility that she has psychological issues. Or that her boyfriend refuses to use condoms. Either way, it's a cycle that should be broken if possible.

I'm not recommending that she has the babies and potentially has them taken off her.

Yes contraception should be strongly recommended but you can't force people to use it unless you have enforced sterilisation. I'm sure SS have tried to broach the issue of contraception with my DDs' birth mum but for whatever reason she hasn't been listening.

You have to be offered counselling in the first place.
I had a late stage abortion for 'social' reasons. (23+5).
No counselling at all, none, not before I made my choice, to help me make the choice, or after.
I was sterilised a year later, again no counselling.

It’s crazy that in this day and age you can get to the point of having multiple abortions without some serious mental health follow up. For me, this is an obvious failure to pick up an adult that can’t cope with adult life and needs professional help.

If the op isn’t a troll, I’d say the fact she’s lied to her family is indicative that she has bad relationships all around, family, bf, etc.

There are adults who do not eat, who have no home, who are incontinent, barely verbal, expected to manage. Multiple abortions are quite pedestrian by comparison.

have you text the people back to put them straight?

Yes it is when funds go to people who are given free alternative ways to prevent the cost in the first place (even morning after pill), yet can't go to people who are childless through no fault of theirs.

Of course, let's not even talk about how it is taking funds away people with horrible illnesses.

Tired of people who use a free system just because it's available when they can prevent it, and yes, unfortunately, although 8 is an extreme number, women who have 4 or 5 abortions in their life time are not that rare.

No, it still isn't an insult to people who can't have kids. It's got nothing to do with them.

You seem to be working on the assumption that if the funding weren't available for abortions, it would automatically go towards IVF instead. This isn't the case.

If she were to have carried even a couple of these pregnancies to term, it would've been eaten up by the costs of antenatal, birth and postnatal care even if we assume that a combination of pregnancy and use of contraception would have prevented the others. Which we shouldn't because we don't know.

Alternatively, she might still have decided to have the abortions anyway but done them illegally and suffered the side effects that often accompany illegal and botched abortions. With the NHS picking up the costs for that too.

You can disapprove all you like of multiple abortions, but the reality is that there are plenty of ways that not providing them could make things even more expensive for the NHS.