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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Angry at friend about abortion and the situation she’s put me in?

322 replies

BornInSydneyy · 26/12/2017 11:07

My friend has had numerous abortions. All with the sane boyfriend .., I’m guessing about 8 at this point.

I try not to judge because I’m very pro choice. But I don’t agree with abortion as a form of contraception .. it’s very conflicting.

She’s now lied to family members that I’ve gone with her to support her during the abortion and I’ve had her family messaging me about it ... this all happened in the space of 10 minutes! ... I’m so angry. I want nothing to do with the lies, aibu?

OP posts:
Gwenhwyfar · 27/12/2017 16:28

"You can't be a little bit pro-choice. If you seek to restrict the number of abortions a woman has then you aren't pro-choice. You're merely 'pro stuff that suits my moral code.'"

We're not saying she shouldn't be allowed the 8 abortions. She should BUT she should make some effort to avoid having a 9th. Clearly, if there's no self-reflection or counselling, this will carry on until menopause.

Elendon · 27/12/2017 16:29

Lass

Can you explain the biology behind being fertile 24/7 all of your life and who this would apply to? (hint: it isn't a female).

If men are indeed fertile 24/7 all of their adult life then they should be the one's who should be the gate keepers of fertility. Simples.

Elendon · 27/12/2017 16:31

And Lass a 9th or a 10th? What's the problem?

swingofthings · 27/12/2017 16:35

"You can't be a little bit pro-choice. If you seek to restrict the number of abortions a woman has then you aren't pro-choice. You're merely 'pro stuff that suits my moral code.'"
I don't disagree that abortions should be legal, but that doesn't make me pro-choice though. I am not against it because I accept that unfortunately, mistakes do happen and it shouldn't be right that women, often very young, could put their life at risk because of it. That doesn't mean I think abortions are great and women shouldn't be made responsible for making mistakes after mistakes.

Mumof56 · 27/12/2017 16:37

If men are indeed fertile 24/7 all of their adult life then they should be the one's who should be the gate keepers of fertility. Simples

Why would you put the responsibility of what happens to your body in the hands of someone else?

swingofthings · 27/12/2017 16:38

When you have an abortion they do try and push you into contraception but if you say no, that’s that really isn’t i
Maybe she could be told that next time she will be invoiced for the service.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 27/12/2017 16:39

We're not saying she shouldn't be allowed the 8 abortions. She should BUT she should make some effort to avoid having a 9th. Clearly, if there's no self-reflection or counselling, this will carry on until menopause

Indeed Gwenhyfar.

Elendon if women don't want to get pregnant they can take steps to prevent becoming pregnant. Why do you treat women as children who are incapable of taking responsibility for their actions?

So far as your little hints - men have 3 options- a vasectomy; not have sex at all (and presumably that is not what the OP's friend wants) or condoms.

If properly used condoms are pretty good (in my particular case 100%) condoms used with anotther of the many methods available to women are even better.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 27/12/2017 16:44

If men are indeed fertile 24/7 all of their adult life then they should be the one's who should be the gate keepers of fertility. Simples

No it really isn't "simples". Why do you treat women as such simpletons ? As being incapable of and not even being expected to take charge of their lives?

No one has said there should be a cut off. What posters are objecting to is the blasé - well what does it matter attitude.

MrsTerryPratchett · 27/12/2017 17:08

We're not saying she shouldn't be allowed the 8 abortions. She should BUT she should make some effort to avoid having a 9th. Clearly, if there's no self-reflection or counselling, this will carry on until menopause.

There are two issues with this. One is the Overton window. If people talk in a certain way for long enough the Zeitgeist shifts and 'should' turns into 'must'. The way we frame things is important. Which is why sometimes people start threads all over the internet with a hypothetical and rare scenario where people respond, "that's wrong", "she shouldn't", "it shouldn't be allowed" and the world gets a tiny bit more forced-birth and misogynist.

Second, 'moral' issues that predominantly affect men are treated in a very different way to those that affect women. There are countless children living in poverty because of men who don't pay their child support. Men not marrying their children's mothers and leaving them penniless. Affairs? Sexual assault FFS. There is often very little legislation and even less enforcement. So we need to stop policing women in this way or start policing men.

In this case, there is a free, easy solution to all of this. A man could decide not to opt for PIV sex. All other kinds of sex are on the table as long as everyone consents. Just not PIV. No more abortions. But it's ALL about how this women could use contraception, isn't it?

Mumof56 · 27/12/2017 17:11

A man could decide not to opt for PIV sex

So can a woman

But it's ALL about how this women could use contraception, isn't it?

Her body, her choice.

Elendon · 27/12/2017 17:12

Lass,

You are the one who is treating men as simpletons. Humans who cannot understand their fertility.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 27/12/2017 17:12

In this case, there is a free, easy solution to all of this. A man could decide not to opt for PIV sex

You are assuming the women doesn't want it.

Alternatively the man could use a condom and the woman could use one of the many female contraceptives available.

MrsTerryPratchett · 27/12/2017 17:12

So can a woman

That's my point. This thread has been 95% about HER failings. Those really don't need to be restated. His do.

Elendon · 27/12/2017 17:14

Lass. There is a male contraceptive pill. Totally reversible.

MrsTerryPratchett · 27/12/2017 17:14

Again, we've covered what the woman can do, OVER AND OVER.

I'm not assuming the woman doesn't want it, just that the man also has choices.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 27/12/2017 17:14

You are the one who is treating men as simpletons. Humans who cannot understand their fertility

Nope. I am saying they both take responsibility- unlike you who seem to think women have no obligation to use contraception.

Mumof56 · 27/12/2017 17:15

Humans who cannot understand their fertility

Like people who get accidently pregnant?

Elendon · 27/12/2017 17:17

A vasectomy is reversible too. As is banking sperm. Lots of options for men, who are fertile 24/7 all of their adult lives. They are the ones who should be worried about population control.

But with women like you Lass for support, why should they worry?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 27/12/2017 17:18

Elendon the male pill is not available.

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/contraception-guide/Pages/male-pill.aspx

And even if it were why does that negate the responsibility of both.

Elendon · 27/12/2017 17:18

Mum please don't misquote me. I was referring to males. And you know that. Or are you a simpleton too?

Elendon · 27/12/2017 17:22

But it's not the responsibility of both now. The onus is on the human who is only fertile for at most a week within a month and only then fertile for a maximum of 40 years.

Men can get the contraceptive pill if they really want to. Except they may have a drop in libido, headaches and mood swings.

Mumof56 · 27/12/2017 17:22

Or are you a simpleton too?

No but anyone who takes the position of "your body, his choice" is. Wink

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 27/12/2017 17:23

But with women like you Lass for support, why should they worry?

It is nothing to do with supporting men. How many times do I have to say both parties should responsibly.

Women like you are happy to infantilise women and encourage them to pass responsibility on to men. I can hardly think of worse advice to give to a young woman.

Mumof56 · 27/12/2017 17:24

Mum please don't misquote me. I was referring to males

Hmm

Your quote Humans who cannot understand their fertility

Are women not human?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 27/12/2017 17:25

Men can get the contraceptive pill if they really want to

There is commercial distribution of the male pill in the UK.

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