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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Angry at friend about abortion and the situation she’s put me in?

322 replies

BornInSydneyy · 26/12/2017 11:07

My friend has had numerous abortions. All with the sane boyfriend .., I’m guessing about 8 at this point.

I try not to judge because I’m very pro choice. But I don’t agree with abortion as a form of contraception .. it’s very conflicting.

She’s now lied to family members that I’ve gone with her to support her during the abortion and I’ve had her family messaging me about it ... this all happened in the space of 10 minutes! ... I’m so angry. I want nothing to do with the lies, aibu?

OP posts:

MrsTerryPratchett · 27/12/2017 17:25

It's not about infantilizing women. It's about expecting men to be adults.

Mumof56 · 27/12/2017 17:26

It's not about infantilizing women

It is

Elendon · 27/12/2017 17:27

Well I have a son Lass and there is no way I would ask him to put the responsibility of contraception onto a woman.

And unlike you, I have two daughters. One is gay. I was happy for my eldest to go on the pill, but she now uses condoms. Or rather, her partner does. So contraception is his responsibility.

I've no idea why you are getting so riled up about this Lass. Do you need a lie down?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 27/12/2017 17:27

It's not about infantilizing women. It's about expecting men to be adults

It is about expecting both parties to be adults-not as Elendon is proposing handing all responsibility to men.

Elendon · 27/12/2017 17:33

I did not propose handling all responsibility to men. I merely pointed out the biology. Men are fertile 24/7 all of their adult lives. Which makes them the gatekeepers of fertility. Biology is such a bore at times.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 27/12/2017 17:35

Well I have a son Lass and there is no way I would ask him to put the responsibility of contraception onto a woman

It really is none of your business what they decide- but if you think a woman should be free to abnegate all responsibility for not getting pregnant I sincerely hope you are not involved in anything which involves sexual health education for young people.

As for getting "riled up" - perhaps if you stopped spouting nonsense that men could just go and get the male pill I would not reply.

Oh and don't you claim to be a feminist? Isn't using language like " riled up" and " have a lie down" the sort of language feminists get terribly upset about when MRAs use it to women they disagree with?

ReanimatedSGB · 27/12/2017 17:35

Yes: if a woman is having repeated abortions in the course of the relationship with the same man, his involvement and his behaviour are worthy of consideration. If you remove the possibility of the abortions being due to medical reasons (repeated unviable foetuses or complications of pregnancy which threaten the woman's life) he's either abusive, or remarkably selfish and negligent. Repeated pregnancies, above about six, can be fairly bad for a woman's body, whether or not they end in a live birth.

In general, though, it's not hugely unreasonable for a woman to need several abortions in the course of her fertile life. For a woman who is fairly fertile, we're talking about a span of 30+ years. No contraception is 100% reliable, even if used correctly. So a hypothetical woman with no fertility problems could have: an unwanted pregnancy in her mid-teens, have a couple of kids in her late 20s then get PG again and decide with her then-partner that they can't cope with another, maybe have another late unplanned pregnancy because she and the man thought she was coming to the end of her fertile time and were less careful... Abortion is something every woman should be able to access as and when she decides it's necessary.

MrsTerryPratchett · 27/12/2017 17:37

I thought I'd made my point plain but if I didn't... actually no, I think I did.

Even if it's a moral decision, it's BOTH party's moral decision and the thread has been 95% about her. AND even if it's a moral decision, it isn't a legal one. People do plenty of immoral tings that no one legislates. But people LOVE to try to legislate women's bodies so any discussion like this should take that into account.

Elendon · 27/12/2017 17:40

Where do I claim to be a feminist Lass? Show me my quote where I said I was a feminist.

And yes, you understand don't you? You clearly know when you have lost the argument. Riled up and lie down are phrases I would use for a man too. In fact, last time I heard it was when my eldest brother said it to my second eldest brother. They both laughed and indeed a lie down did happen as did I because it was clearly needed to be said

Elendon · 27/12/2017 17:41

Anyway Lass you are the one who suggested that 9 abortions was one too many.

Arbiter much?

Mumof56 · 27/12/2017 17:42

Even if it's a moral decision, it's BOTH party's moral decision

The decision to have an abortion?

BoringBoringThread · 27/12/2017 17:45

The pro choice stance for something like 8 miscarriages is simply crap doesn't make sense... That's just being simple, common, naive , stupid. The fact that is legal doesn't mean anything, about zillion things are not illegal, doesn't mean anything

What if your royals married into someone like this, would you find it ok? What if a 16yo did this? You'd be prochoice?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 27/12/2017 17:45

Even if it's a moral decision, it's BOTH party's moral decision and the thread has been 95% about her

What is both parties' moral decision? The abortion? It is absolutely not his decision.

The man here must have culpability in going along with circumstances which have led his partner to 8 unwanted pregnancies; frankly goodness only knows what is going on in both their heads to be in this situation.

Who on here has said anything about legislating?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 27/12/2017 17:47

Anyway Lass you are the one who suggested that 9 abortions was one too many

Arbiter much?

No I did not say that.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 27/12/2017 17:49

Where do I claim to be a feminist Lass? Show me my quote where I said I was a feminist

My apologies. I thought you were.

And yes, you understand don't you? You clearly know when you have lost the argument

Nope. I see someone resorting to the sort of patronising language which they think will shut down debate because they can't think of anything better to say.

MargaretCavendish · 27/12/2017 18:25

What if your royals married into someone like this, would you find it ok

Eh?

ReanimatedSGB · 27/12/2017 18:27

Abortion should not never, ever, be a man's 'decision'. It's not up to him. His opinion is basically irrelevant because it's not his body that is pregnant. (Yes, couples may discuss whether or not to continue a pregnancy, and a man may state his preferences, but ultimately the man has no right to any input in the decision, and men should never be given even a sniff of a legal right to decide on abortion. Under no circumstances, ever).
In a situation like the one the OP describes, we might well wonder WTF this man thinks he's doing - is he oblivious to the repeated unwanted pregnancies? Is it all 'her problem' as long as he gets his dick wet when he wants? Is he, in fact, trying to ensure she 'gives him a child' and her only recourse (in her eyes) is to terminate every unwanted pregnancy? OP has given no information about what's actually going on here. TBH it might be that the friend has had no more than 3/4 terminations over 15 years, which would not be particularly unreasonable, only OP is exaggerating for effect...

yulefool · 27/12/2017 18:34

2 different issues have been conflated - you can be pro choice on a per abortion basis, every time, whilst at the same time believing any human putting themselves through 8 of them ought to be triggering a lot of involvement from mental health services.

If you had 8 hospitalisation for drinking too much (or 2 or more) or multiple suicide attempts you’d hope for similar interventions.

Thee are plenty of people that are pro choice but believe it is always a choice best avoided where possible, I’m sure that’s most people’s position, and belief in a deity has nothing to do with it.

Really, these cases ought to shine a big light on the standards by which adults are deemed competent.

MrsTerryPratchett · 27/12/2017 18:42

The decision to have an abortion?

FGS of course not. There's really no point trying to have a reasoned debate is there?

NotACleverName · 27/12/2017 19:21

What if your royals married into someone like this, would you find it ok?

I couldn't give a shiny shite what the royals choose to do with their reproductive organs.

IMightMentionGriddlebone · 27/12/2017 19:37

Very well said.

I regard any debate on 'what if a woman used abortion as contraception, but what if? Would you still be pro-choice?' as fundamentally hypothetical. Because no normal woman in normal circumstances would.

It's like asking me if I am still willing for my taxes to support free-at-the-point-of-use emergency medical treatment for everyone, even people who repeatedly, deliberately, and completely avoidably, self-injure by cutting their own arms with sharp knives.

Of course I bloody am, because no-one self-harms just for the hell of it. People who self-harm need help!

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 27/12/2017 22:24

MrsTerryPratchett

The decision to have an abortion?

FGS of course not. There's really no point trying to have a reasoned debate is there?

Oh of course- everyone else is just thick. Could not possibly because you didn't put your point very well.

yulefool your post sums up my views perfectly.

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