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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Angry at friend about abortion and the situation she’s put me in?

322 replies

BornInSydneyy · 26/12/2017 11:07

My friend has had numerous abortions. All with the sane boyfriend .., I’m guessing about 8 at this point.

I try not to judge because I’m very pro choice. But I don’t agree with abortion as a form of contraception .. it’s very conflicting.

She’s now lied to family members that I’ve gone with her to support her during the abortion and I’ve had her family messaging me about it ... this all happened in the space of 10 minutes! ... I’m so angry. I want nothing to do with the lies, aibu?

OP posts:
Reallytired17 · 27/12/2017 09:25

Most posters here aren’t shocked by eight abortions. Most concede it is out of the ordinary but believe on balance it is better to terminate eight pregnancies than have eight unwanted children in the world.

Loads of women abort even though they would rather not
And plenty are quite happy and confident with the choice they made and got on with their day. The guilt stricken woman, never able to move on with her life, is a myth.

ferntwist · 27/12/2017 09:32

I’m horrified by eight abortions. Sorry, it’s not a means of contraception.

DivisionBelle · 27/12/2017 09:37

I still don’t understand why the family are harassing the OP,

Op, if you are (understandably) principled about being asked to lie, you need to be equally principled about discussing / disclosing any of your friend’s business to her family.

I would just stonewall the calls and tell your friend not to implicate you in her family hoo ha. However I would also ask WHY she said it. Is she very isolated? Lacking support? Does her partner refuse to use contraception?

Lizzie48 · 27/12/2017 09:37

Why is it that you feel the need to undermine those posters who say it's a hard decision, reallytired17? Maybe it is easy for some women. For others it's a really painful decision, and I do know that's true, btw, not a myth. Some find it easy at the time, then grieve later, again I know women who have felt that way, not a myth. I'm sure others get over it quickly, of course.

Maybe they don't feel able to talk to you about what they're feeling because it goes against the party line that abortion is straightforward and it's a myth that it damages women.

The bottom line, each woman has her own story.

IsaSchmisa · 27/12/2017 09:39

Typical Mumsnet. A woman has 8 abortions but “that’s her choice”

But... it is though. There's not the slightest doubt about that. Were you hoping for less accurate responses?

Sorry, it’s not a means of contraception.

Correct. Contraception prevents pregnancy from occurring in the first place, so a procedure ending a pregnancy that is already in existence can't possibly be contraception.

catrin · 27/12/2017 09:42

Fml I'm pro choice but I'm judging hard at 8 abortions. I haven't had 8 pregnancy scares in my life - anyone who uses abortion as a contraceptive like that is a twat.

olebiscuitbarrel · 27/12/2017 09:42

What Lizzie48 said. Guilt stricken women do exist along with those who grieve over their aborted baby. What about women who abort because of severe foetal abnormalities? Aren’t they allowed any kind of sadness or grief?

Don’t conflate grief and regret.

Xenophile · 27/12/2017 09:56

I feel very sad for the woman who has had so many abortions and hope her underlying issues can be sorted.

OP YANBU for being angry and upset that your friend has lied about you to her family. The suggested script on the first page is a really good one.

DivisionBelle · 27/12/2017 09:56

Lalliella I am sorry you had a miscarriage.

However, a 7 week embryo does not have a developed heart. It has the muscle that will develop into a heart, and the electrical impulse that will
Drive the heartbeat.

IME having experienced a pregnancy that I very much did not want, and subsequent termination, and then dearly wanted pregnancies, I would say we cannot judge one from the position of the other. When we are pg and very much wanting a baby and use language about ‘my baby’ even when it is still a zygote: literally a bundle of cells. We might as well talk about ‘my toddler’ or ‘my teenager’ because we are talking about our hopes and expectations, and we are (of course) devastated by the loss of that ‘baby’.

When pg with an unplanned, protected against pregnancy, I felt terrified, invaded, out of control. I thought carefully about whether I could have a child in my life, and then couldn’t get a termination fast enough. And didn’t regret it.

How that contrasted with my feelings during a threatened miscarriage when I was pg with my eldest. No Way could I have contemplated a termination of that pg!

user838383 · 27/12/2017 09:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DivisionBelle · 27/12/2017 10:00

“The suggested script on the first page is a really good one.”

I think the suggested script goes too far. I would say no more than ‘this is a mistake or a misunderstanding: I am not involved, please do not contact me again’.

The OP, after all, says this woman is her friend,

Reallytired17 · 27/12/2017 10:02

Lizzie, I am not saying no woman feels the things you list. I am objecting to the claims that every woman does. Plenty of women, and I’m one of them, walked out of the clinic feeling relief, nothing more, nothing less.

Lizzie48 · 27/12/2017 10:03

I was objecting to you saying it was a myth. It's not. Your reaction is just that, your own experience. Not a myth either.

Reallytired17 · 27/12/2017 10:06

It is a myth that most women feel these things after having an abortion.

They don’t.

Most women make the choice to end the pregnancy, end it, and continue with their lives.

Lizzie48 · 27/12/2017 10:11

And how would you know that? I've heard women's stories that they felt nothing but relief at the time, but felt regret later, when they had children of their own.

And of course they got on with their lives, what choice did they have?

I doubt a woman would tell you if she was grieving for the baby she aborted because of your somewhat aggressive stance on the issue.

AHedgehogCanNeverBeBuggered · 27/12/2017 10:17

boopsy a lot of medical staff would decline to perform an abortion that late, particularly one done for reasons other than severe foetal abnormality or risk to the life of the mother. However, when it does happen, the baby is injected with a drug to stop its heart before being removed, so there's no chance of it being born alive and being left to die.

BabsCabsIsLocal · 27/12/2017 10:17

Oh I see, you're just being goady for the sake of it. That's why you apparently can't understand that most of us agree 8 abortions is better than 8 unwanted children, but that contraception is better than 8 abortions.

Reallytired17 · 27/12/2017 10:26

Who, me? Confused Of course not. Contraception - stopping conception taking place -is better than terminating an existing pregnancy. Of course it is.

But. For whatever reason, some women don’t use it properly (I am saying women there because we are talking about abortions) and I don’t think in those instances it’s best to say ‘well, you’ve had X number of abortions, you still are not using contraception properly, so you shall be punished by having to have the baby.’

A lot of people do think women always feel guilt and shame after an abortion and this myth is perpetuated because that’s the exchange. You get an abortion but you will always feel awful about it. Well -it’s not true.

olebiscuitbarrel · 27/12/2017 10:26

An unwanted pregnancy does not necessarily lead to an unwanted & neglected child either. Another (misogynistic) myth. Most women are not psychopaths who will treat their children badly, on account of the fact that they didn’t want to be pregnant.

IHaveBrilloHair · 27/12/2017 10:28

boopsy, it was done in a BPAS clinic, so the staff know what they are signing up for, the baby is injected the day before to stop the heartbeat.
I'm fine with the choice I made, just wish I hadn't had to make it, I had a mirena coil at the time, and was sterilized by choice a year later so was responsible throughout.

Reallytired17 · 27/12/2017 10:29

Agreed, but it’s still not a great argument for forcing women to go ahead with a pregnancy they don’t want!

olebiscuitbarrel · 27/12/2017 10:30

A belief that human life exists from conception isn’t the same thing as wanting to punish women. Some really strange attitudes on this thread.

Lizzie48 · 27/12/2017 10:36

Where have I said that a woman should be forced to go through with a pregnancy, reallytired17, that would be totally wrong? But also isn't right to pretend that it isn't an agonising time for a lot of women.

And just because it wasn't hard for you doesn't mean that another person isn't grieving. As a previous poster said, grief doesn't necessarily mean regret, so they may still know that they made the right call, hard though it was.

user838383 · 27/12/2017 10:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Reallytired17 · 27/12/2017 10:40

In itself, I agree. Which is why I actually have more patience with the views that abortion is always wrong than the views which state abortion is only wrong in certain circumstances.

If, say, we had two seventeen year olds with newborn babies, we would agree it would be wrong to kill those babies. It wouldn’t matter that one was a product of a violent rape, or that one was the result of a split condom and a bit of a stomach upset when the Pill was being taken. We wouldn’t say ‘ah, well, okay, we will kill this baby for you, but in future make sure you don’t have sex if you’ve been unwell.’ We just wouldn’t do it.

If you believe abortion is ending a human life, your reaction wouldn’t be dependent on the circumstances of the woman. You wouldn’t be saying ‘well, if she was raped abortion is okay. If it’s incest, or if she only had sex once and she did take precautions but they failed.’ You’d say it is wrong.

So to go back to my example - two seventeen year old girls holding a newborn, one because of rape, one because she slept around. You wouldn’t agree to kill the first girls baby but force the second to take hers home. Yet that’s exactly what people who believe abortion is ‘wrong, unless th girl has been raped’ believe. It’s hypocritical and unpleasant.

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