To think SIL has mental health issues

[Vanessatiger]

Back story: in the beginning SIL and I were okay with each other, she lives across the big pond so visits were about once a year.
Then I had a miscarriage at a late stage, was deeply traumatised. At the same time, she went behind my back and said to DH to dump me because I had told his mother that before the miscarriage we had a big row and DH slammed the door loudly and I got shocked and started bleeding.

They (MIL and SIL) said what I said was horrible about her brother and I deserved to lose the baby (SIL) said so.
Since then I had only seen her once. This was years ago.

Fast forward 4 years, I got pregnant with DD now 3 and DS now 8 months. SIL has never once got in touch and been silent whenever I write to her on her DS’s birthday and during Christmas. I feel I should mend our relationship for the sake of DH as he’s very close to his sister growing up.

So MIL has never met our DCs as she always made excuses not to meet them. SIL met DD once as a baby as was not that interested. DH has two DSs from previous and she dots over them.

Anyway on Christmas eve I sent an email to her saying Merry Christmas to her and her DS, wishing them a nice holiday. And told her she’s welcome to skype our DCs.

She wrote back with spite. Saying she dies not want to get to know our DCs because I’m their mother and that she feels sorry for my DH because he has me. That it’s inappropriate to wish her a merry Christmas as her DM is terminally ill. Then she added “ i want no contact”.

DH was deeply hurt by her email as she copied him in it.

They always had a good relationship despite being far away from each other, but it seems she now closed the door to him as well.
He’s hurt she wants nothing to do with our DCs. His mother already did the same but DH thinks it’s forgivable because MIL is old and ill. But SIL isn’t old nor ill so shouldn’t shut his children out like that.

We’ve decided not to send DHs kids to her anymore as we’ve done in the past two summers. Because she seems to have poisoned their minds about me as well.
Plus we don’t want our children to feel left out once they’re older.

Is she mentally ill or what?

I suffer from depression as does my dd - we are not horrible people.

But thanks for perpetuating the stigma.

I am not concerned about her at all, just trying to find a reason to her behaviour

So in your head it is not possible for someone to just not like you- they have to be mentally ill as a result?

Ugggrrrr...they all sound dreadful...including your dh..far too much hard work.

I am not concerned about her at all, just trying to find a reason to her behaviour.

I am absolutely certain that you know the reason. You may disagree with it, you may not like it, but I don't for one second believe that you have absolutely no idea what's gone on between you to cause this level of conflict.

You've even outright admitted here that you're not concerned about her, so all this passive aggressive 'I just wanted to wish her merry Christmas' bollocks is just disingenuous and crass.

Wait, you said DH caused your miscarriage and you can’t see why his family don’t like you?
You do realise that women in war torn countries carry babies full term don’t you? Not saying what your DH did was right (punching the wall etc) but in no way could that have caused a miscarriage.

Also trying to pin MH issues against your SIL because she doesn’t like you? You sound like a right charmer

Fyi, i wrote that Christmas message genuinely so she’d reconcile with DH and start a relationship with our DCs because DD had asked about daddy’s family. It broke our heart.
But since she wrote back with spite, I couldn’t care less about her now. So no I’m not concerned about her, but trying to understand why she’s so spiteful over something that happened many many years ago. Why can’t people move on?

Why can’t people move on?

Take your own advice 😊

You do realise that women in war torn countries carry babies full term don’t you?

Let's OP isn't medically trained, nor an expert on miscarriages. Her DH physically intimidated her and in the next moment she started bleeding. Can you genuinely not see how someone might link the two in their grief and fear?

OP - I have been finding this thread really uncomfortable reading. I know this is AIBU but I couldn't quite work out why some posters have taken quite an extreme stance against you (though many haven't - there is a mix). I guess some of your posts are pushing different buttons for different people. Like peaches, who did come back and explain her (understandable) reaction and feelings relating to the miscarriage element of your story, and posters who feel (again understandably) aggrieved when they interpret something as conflating horrible behaviour with MH issues, and I think no doubt some people who've gone NC with a family member for what they feel is very justified reasons and perhaps have been criticised or needled by the person they are NC with and are sensitive to you seeming to do this to your SIL. A minuscule minority are probably just being shitty because it's AIBU and they can be. So, I looked at your previous threads as they have been referenced in this one, to see if there was something I was missing.

I understand your feelings about your miscarriage. I know people are adamant on here that stress absolutely cannot cause miscarriages. I don't know - who's to say that there wasn't an underlying vulnerability to your pregnancy and that you having constantly elevated cortisol levels due to your DH's physical and emotional intimidation of your throughout your pregnancy didn't tragically tip the balance the wrong way. I’m assuming you weren’t given a medical explanation to contradict your interpretation. Either way, your DH's behaviour certain wouldn't have helped and whatever you said about his role in the loss of your baby, it did not warrant what your SIL said. From a previous thread, it seems that live a very isolated life and it must have been extremely difficult for you to not only endure his abusive behaviour but also lose your baby without the support of friends and family.

I come from a family where going NC is the absolutely nuclear option - people can behave pretty appallingly towards each other and still we are expected to just sweep it all under the carpet, move on, keep smiling grimacing because "it's family". I am the only person in my family to have gone NC (perhaps - hopefully - temporarily, I don't know) with someone. I do have the support of my other family members to a large extent, though I know they wish I would relent and let "bygones be bygones". I'm fairly certain that the person with whom I've gone NC thinks I have done so because of a combination of "MH issues" (I don't have MH issues) and a sense of entitlement/position in family etc. etc. Actually, I just found that our interactions were getting progressively nastier at every turn and I thought it was desperately unhealthy and painful for us to continue simply because "it's family". I know you just want to know why, I know you just want to move on, let bygones be bygones, not be seen as the cause of a rift between your DH and his family… but you really do just have to let this one go. It is beyond your control. Rather than feeling angry or upset about it, rather than thinking you can change it if you just keep trying hard enough, just take peace from the fact that you made an effort, it was rejected, there is no more you can do and so it is no longer your concern. You need to focus on you and your DC. Stop thinking about who’s “right" or “wrong”, stop trying to justify yourself to your DH. It is what it is.

As for the conflation of MH issues and horrible behaviour - I understand why it has upset some posters and we are all guilty of it I might have armchair diagnosed the person I’m NC with as a sociopath at one point. They’re not In fact one of my close family members does suffer from depression and when really at rock bottom has said some horrible things both to me and about other people. They are lovely. This is not a case of me having to tolerate awful behaviour because of the family dynamics I’ve referred to but me knowing it’s their illness speaking and they they will apologise when they are feeling better.

I’m aware this is getting really long and I haven’t read it back for sense, spelling and grammar but, finally, I think you might be having some “issues" based on what you have said in your previous threads. It sounds you have never been accepted by your DH’s family from day one (well before the miscarriage), your MIL sounds horrible, and he doesn’t treat you well at all, even if they physical stuff has stopped. You are living in a bubble - or a gilded cage given that you are with a man you describe as a “high earner” - closed off from friends, family, a job of any sort, and with a very unsupportive partner. I have worked in households in these expat communities and I think here we go with more armchair diagnosis you are not alone with being a woman who becomes overly focused on family dynamics and local drama amongst the other families in the bubble because there is no other outlet for the pressure.

I don’t know what access you have to a therapist who works with expats in your community, but perhaps you would be better speaking to someone who can get to know you and your situation and not immediately focus on, even attack, each and every thing you say that pushes a particular button for the person you are speaking to, which is what happens on the internet.

I sincerely hope I haven’t said something that offends you or anyone else who’s read this far along. Not a psychologist, not a medical professional, just offering my own unqualified opinion alongside others.

mirialis thanks for your insight and kind words, which seem to be rare in MN

There are some really nasty people on AIBU. I feel more shitty after posting so I will take a break from MN for a while.
Fine if they aren’t going to be helpful, but to be called “toxic, poisonous “ etc is just downright nasty, from people who I’ve never met in my entire life. Weird how people hide behind their screens and post really nasty comments and many are supposedly mothers. Why do you teach your sons and daughters? To kick someone when they are down?
That if you’ve made a comment which you regret later, there’s no return?
You are a nasty bunch!
Probably why you comment in the first place anyway.
Though there werea few lovely posters who commented but the nasty ones dominated by far sadly.

Goodbye

Vanessatiger - I think it's a good idea you take a break from AIBU for a while (although I know the internet seems like an obvious place when you are feeling isolated and want to talk through things).

Please do try to find someone to speak to in "real life" who can support you and help you think about what you want in life for you and your dc and how to achieve it. I think someone trained and qualified would be best if at all possible - they will know how to support you without letting their own issues get in the way.

Good luck

Oh and re MH and stigma, I’m sorry but many people with MH issues do say and do things more extreme than people in their sound minds. My stepson has diagnosed ADHD, oppositional defiant disorder, depression and bipolar, he’s 17 years old. He’s prone to violence, he says really outrageous things that a “normal “ 17 yr old wouldn’t say. He does really “crazy” things as well and behaves oddly,in a way that isn’t socially acceptable like laughing really loud at a joke and would overdo it. Would tell a joke at someone’s expense and harping on about it so the person gets really annoyed but he won’t stop until somebody stops him, even then he brushes it off and continues. He’s threatened to kill him self many times. He’s threatened to kill his brother. He’s lovely in his own ways but he has no friends because he doesn’t know how to be a friend and keep a friend. He’s been reprimanded for violence in school. He’d kick a kid for no reason (or actually he’d tell you he kicked the kid because they stared at him or something similar). We struggle with him because he’s very difficult to be with and is quite manipulative too. We keep good contact with each other but if he weren’t my stepson I wouldn’t want much to do with him.
I’m thinking his aunt may have something similar but undiagnosed. That’s all.

The issue is not that mentally unwell people are sometimes unpleasant or dangerous, it's the idea that the only reason your SIL could possibly dislike you is because she's not in sound mind.

It's obvious from what you've told us that this is a toxic and terrible background where nobody covers themselves in glory. Depression and anxiety might feature (I'd be amazed if they didn't, all things considered), but it's just very clear that everyone's got reasons for hating everyone else. It is simply not right to take a situation like this and reduce it down to 'person X is just nuts'.

I am sorry that you didn't get the responses you were hoping for and I do sincerely hope that your family can resolve its issues as much as possible. But I can tell you that that will not happen as long as the only reason you will consider for the situation is that your SIL is medically insane.

'I’m thinking his aunt may have something similar but undiagnosed. That’s all.'

I think she just wants you to leave her alone.

Maybe she just doesn't want a relationship with you. Why diagnose that as MH.

I’m thinking his aunt may have something similar but undiagnosed. That’s all.

OR THEY JUST DONT LIKE YOU. BECAUSE TOU HAVE UPSET THEM WITH YOUR ACCUSATIONS.

Jfhc. You are unfuckingbelievable. Never anything to do with you, eh? 😳😡

Let your dh deal with his family issues. I suspect that if he'd emailed his sister about his two younger dcs the result would have been very different.

Let him mend his relationship with her, keep out of it. Once he's managed to sort that out, then he can work on getting the other children accepted, or at least acknowledged.

You are, for whatever reason or none, not able to help him in that process. You need to keep well away from her until she or dh invite you. Until then, if you want your two to have a relationship with her at all, keep out.

Try to encourage him to build fences though.

Yes I suggested he might have caused the miscarriage, which wasn’t that far offas we went through a lot of stresses and we rowed a lot during that time and he wasn’t that considerate of me being pregnant. He’s better now
So his shouting, punching walls, banging tables and slamming doors can apparently cause a miscarriage yet you stuck around putting yourself at such risk? It didn't cause a miscarriage btw but where's YOUR culpability seeing as you threw that out there?

If DH was okay with me saying he caused the miscarriage and we moved on
What you said was unforgivable to most. What a weird dynamic where he is 'OK' with it.

Re not sending Stepsons to see their aunt,no why would we when she’s not been civil with us
You are a piece of work. Punish the kids, out of spite (which you seem to have such a problem with if you perceive it directed at you) From your own account, an established relationship with regular visits and you are wielding your big stick of malice because you can. But, nah, you're not the problem

I forgot to add that I feel sorry for her DS as he has no father. He’s a single child and all his life he never knew his father
You also forgot to add the relevance.

I am not concerned about her at all, just trying to find a reason to her behaviour. I think she’s the poisonous here
It is clear who is poisonous. I wouldn't have anything to do with you either, right from you accusing her db of causing a miscarriage. What a fucked up thing to do.

Seriously, please read between the lines and give it a rest. I really hope the OP has actually left the thread.

Yorick wrote a very good post explaining how the OP's take on things is not going to be productive. Repeatedly telling the OP what a nasty piece of work she is helps no one and is therefore only being done to vent your own shit.

Yes I suggested he might have caused the miscarriage, which wasn’t that far offas we went through a lot of stresses and we rowed a lot during that time and he wasn’t that considerate of me being pregnant. He’s better now

I would never forgive you for saying that about my brother either, especially since you are still saying.

Don't diagnose anyone with mental health issues, its twatty. Maybe look at your own instead?

Oh well, it has little to do with what happened years ago though I guess feelings were seething inside. But apparently (I just found out), SIL who lives across the pond, had asked her brother my DH to go see their mother for Christmas but for an extended period of time (think 3-4 months). He had been flaky about it and not really responded but said he had work issues to sort out. SIL per se has not once in 2017 flown to see their mother but went on hols to the Caribbean. So we have us in a different (far flung) continent and MIL in Europe. It would require a lot of logistics. and planning and sacrifices of family life/work/money to actually take 3-4 months off. DH could potentially loose his job too. But his mother and sister wouldn’t hear it. DH had not told me as he didn’t want to put the burden on me. Though I’ve encouraged him to go for a month or so. Obviously if he went we wouldn’t be welcome at all. MIL would preferably die without seeing the grandchildren.

SIL thinks I’m the one holding DH back and “forbidding him” to go see MIL, totally untrue. Because that would be the “only” reason DH doesn’t want to drop everything in his life and travel across the world to see his mother for an extended period of time...rolls eyes. He just doesn’t want to leave his family during Christmas and doesn’t want to leave everything to go for such long time and spend 24/7 with a bitter, evil mother that’s all.

That’s why sister in law got pissed off by the Christmas greetings.
I guess she feels guilty herself that she isn’t going. Oh because she can’t leave her adult DS alone at home (he’s at uni but lives with her).
By the way, his mother is Muslim so wanting him to go during Christmas doesn’t make sense either. So much drama.
But I’m Christian and we feel strongly about Christmas with the children etc.

Now I know the reason for SIL’s spite.

Cheers for the ones who replied kindly.

I’m thinking his aunt may have something similar but undiagnosed. That’s all

You’re really scraping the bottom of the barrell, OP.

Forget about your ILs and get on with your own life. The most important people in your children’s lives are their parents and siblings.

Now I know the reason for SIL’s spite.

It's good you know why she was spiteful this Christmas OP but she obviously dislikes you as this isn't the first time she's been spiteful. If MIL is being so cruel, why bother encouraging your DH? If he needs encouragement he doesn't actually want to go.

Are you going to go NC now? She seems to want it that way.

Because I don’t want him to later regret he didn’t do everything possible to make her comfortable. I want him to feel ok when she passes. What ever I do I’m doing it for my DH and children.
I really don’t give a hoot about MIL and SIL, they only make my DHs life more miserable. But I don’t want him to live with regrets later on.