Bloody MIL

[silenceisadistantmemory]

She's a walking apology. It's not even passive aggressive. When she asks which chair it would be ok to sit in, she really means it!

Only if you're having one.

May I have a shower please?

Everything is death and gloom and illness as well.

She's retired, loaded and physically ok for a woman her age.

ARGH!!!!

Can you empathise with her a little or are you going to continue to think she’s being deliberately annoying?

Good question.
It's so much easier to bitch about someone else than try and understand them and get where they might be coming from.

In my experience if people act in a deferential manner around certain other people it's because 'certain other people' are quite making them feel insecure because they pick up on they temper and thinly veiled hostility.

My guess is that the OP has a temper and isn't the warmest of hosts hence her MIL treading on egg shells.

OP, some introspection might help.

Op when I was growing up I was always told what an inconvenience and cost I was causing by having a shower at a relatives house and often told I couldn't have one as a result. if you were brought up like that surely you would check that your host is ok for you to use the shower etc.

She sounds polite and a bit nervous and obviously doesn't want to be an inconvenience. Can't believe you're moaning about it tbh

That is very sad. Instead of trying to change her I think you'd benefit from adjusting your attitude. She sounds like she has anxiety & doesn't feel at home. If you exude this frustration at all in your manner then you'll get into a vicious circle.

Why don't you direct her a bit so she starts to feel more at home. Mil-will you give me a hand peeling the carrots? Who's your favourite singers etc to put on stuff that she likes. You should eventually fee comfortable enough to say should we have a cuppa? And both feel at home with each other. Family does take a lot of effort though & I find it exhausting hosting my or dh family

*Stops you getting to know the person.
*
Hit the nail on my the head.

Me and MIL are stuck with each other. Might as well get on and get to know each other. However the current situation means we stay as strangers. Which is a bit tough on DP and the kids.

Goldilocks

Why does her asking if it’s OK to have a shower mean you can’t get to know each other? Why is it her that has to change?

And anyway, it’s pretty unlikely that you are going to be soulmates with your MIL, any more than you would be with any other person of a completely different generation you just happen to meet.You haven’t known her all your life like your dp and your children have-it’s a completely different relationship. Aim for cordiality. You don’t need more than that. Any more is a bonus.

silenceisadistantmemory

I think it's mandatory on here to adore your MIL- regardless of how much they drive you round the bend.

I don't think we can be reading the same threads. Almost every MIL thread I read is about how awful MILs are there is almost always someone who will jump in suggesting the OP goes nc. If anyone dates to defend MILs, they get jumped on and are told they can't possibly understand, just because they have the one decent MIL in the whole world. I've had my problems with my MIL over the years, lots, in fact, but I feel sorry for MILs in general when reading about them on here. It just seems they cannot do anything right. If they go into their DS and DILs kitchen to make a drink, they're being rude. If they wait to be offered a drink, they're lazy. Take a shower without asking? Selfish for not making sure there's enough hot water. Ask to take a shower? Annoying and rude. Doesn't ask which toilet to use - inevitably will use the 'wrong' one. Ask which to use - she's just pathetic and living in a Jane Austen novel. Etc etc etc. When I visit my DS and DIL, I wouldn't dream of just 'getting on with it' without checking with them first. We don't stay as they live very close, but I would check the same things you find so annoying. I love my DIL and she is easy to be with - we get on well so if she gave the go-ahead, then I'd feel happy to take the initiative, but I wouldn't just assume it was all OK to begin with.

Me and MIL are stuck with each other.

Sums up your original attitude toward her. I am not surprised she is feeling unsure whilst a guest in your home. Your poor MIL.

I think it's simply an awkward relationship and she's trying too hard. You'll never be that close probably but you simply need to be able to rub along. My MIL has tried far too hard to create a mother/daughter relationship with me, which I simply don't want to have with her.

I do think it's polite to ask if you can use the bathroom though. Or at least to ask when would be a good time to use it?

I am absofuckinglutely dreading the day that I become a MIL - such a fine line between doing the right thing and not. Are there any guide books?

might as well get to know each other
This.
DP works in a boarding school and always says whenever not getting/getting on with the kids, the advice is simply to spend more time with them. Difficult when very busy but still the best advice.

I'm sorry OP but to me it sounds like you are the problem here.

I feel sorry for your MIL.

Am also thinking there is a difference between house you have visited once and house you have been to and stayed at many times as family.

Absolutely OK to ask re: showers on first visit - not everyone has combi boilers, may only be one bathroom but yes, I would assume I can shower, we are just talking about timings.

On subsequent visits to a family home, I'd assume I knew the drill - so in OP's example where there are plentiful bathrooms and hot water all the time, I wouldn't ask again. Whereas in my house with an immersion heater, we always have to do a bit of planning.

Ditto cups of tea/drinks - if on first asking I got a 'help yourself instruction' in a family home, that is what I would be doing. If it was clear that it wasn't a help yourself household, then I wouldn't do that.

To be several years and several stays in and still asking about chairs, loos, opening the fridge and being unable to make yourself a drink etc is a bit Jane Austen and painful.

get on and get to know... - sorry, missed a bit.

I get it OP.

ILs will be here in a couple of days

Me - I'm making hot drinks, would you like one?
FIL - only if it's no trouble
Me - No trouble at all, tea or coffee?
FIL - whichever you're making
Me - well DH is having coffee and I'm having tea so just fucking pick one either is fine
FIL - whichever is easiest for you
Me - honestly either just as easy for me ffs
FIL - well tea would be lovely but only if it's no trouble
Me - no trouble at all, I'll make a pot and bonk you on the head with it

When you've had this conversation several times a year for nearly 20 years it gets very wearing

They refuse to sit in our front room as "it's lovely and we don't want to mess it up", they sit on a tiny uncomfortable sofa in the kids' den instead. We all squeeze into the unsuitable room instead of being comfortable in the room that's, you know, designed for sitting in

It's weird and makes me feel as though they don't want to be here. I do my utmost to make them feel welcome, I do genuinely like them and we get along brilliantly when they aren't being oddly behaved in my house.

We've only just managed to stop them bringing kitchen roll and loo roll with them so they don't use all ours up. We practically had to show them our bank statements to prove that their two day visit wouldn't leave us destitute.

I just wish they'd accept our hospitality and relax and enjoy their visit. It just feels as though they don't want to be here.

Why are you so bloody passive?

“We all squeeze into the unsuitable room instead of being comfortable in the room that's, you know, designed for sitting in“

Just walk in the room say “come on, everyone in the sitting room, it’s much comfier in there”

The tea/coffee “whichever is easiest for you” thing. Just say “ok I’m having tea, I’ll do one for you”

You’re just making a situation out of nothing!

Hahaha. If only it was that easy. I've tried. They've been told numerous times that the room is not for best, they'd be more comfortable in there, we'd love them to join us etc etc. They refuse point blank so I'm left sitting in there on my own or just with DH. They stay in the other room, uncomfortable, watching the same programme as us. I'm then torn as to whether I should go back into the room they're in so we can chat, or leave them alone as they clearly don't want to spend time with me/us. Challenging it is only met with, well we just don't want to mess up your best room. They've been told it's not a best room, it's a sitting room, with less kid stuff in, that's all. But for some reason they refuse to hear it and we play this ridiculous pantomime every time they visit. When we lived in a smaller house with one reception room so we had to sit together when they visited, it worked fine we all got along, there was no falling out or uncomfortable moments, so I'm genuinely baffled as to why they are like this now.

I make a pot of tea, FIL won't drink it if he really fancied a coffee. He'd rather go thirsty than ask for what he wants or make it himself. I can't bloody win.

There's loads of other stuff too. I've moaned about them many a time on here, I basically got my arse handed to me once with an explanation that they are of a generation where this is considered polite and normal behaviour to make as little impact on your hosts as possible. So I smile and do whatever makes them feel most comfortable and rant about it behind their backs. Which is what I suspect the OP is doing.

RainbowDashed sounds familiar...!

I completely understand OP. It makes hosting so much more difficult.

The only thing I can suggest is bearing in mind how your MIL's
upbringing might have shaped her behaviour. That helped me be more gentle and less exasperated with DM.

I would ask somebody if I could have a shower - I am assertive but to me it is good manners.

I get it.

It's not just asking for a shower. It's almost apologising for breathing. And I am a very very warm and welcoming host. It doesn't come from a bad place but it's hard work.

Op you don't like her and that's it really. Your scrabbling around trying to make out her politeness makes her a terrible human.
If you want to get to know her you need to change your tack, everyone's different and some people have low self esteem and need a different approach. Thats normal and its you who has seems to lack the ability to change your approach, or recognise this. Its basic social skills that some people need different ways of doing things. Its you who needs to make her feel more comfortable in your house.

"For the record, when staying in other people's houses most people ask if it's ok to use the shower."

For the record? Have you done a survey? Unless you've asked a statistically significant number of people you don't know that 'most people ask'. I might ask the first time I'm at someone's house, but I wouldn't ask every day after that.

When I used to visit my grandparents I had to let them know in advance if I wanted a bath or shower because the immersion would have to be switched on. I wonder if asking permission is a hangover from that?

I remember reading on MN about guests who had two showers a day while visiting someone. I would definitely ask permission if I wanted two showers, but I would presume that someone inviting me to stay would expect me to have a shower a day.

I would ask somebody if I could have a shower - I am assertive but to me it is good manners.

yepp me too. Interesting that to some people good manners and not being pushy = having no confidence and being a push over. It's not so.

"when I was growing up I was always told what an inconvenience and cost I was causing by having a shower at a relatives house and often told I couldn't have one as a result."

I've just remembered that my parents wouldn't let me wash my hair every day even though I had greasy hair - too much use of hot water.

Even when I'm visiting my Dsis I'll always ask to use the loo rather than just getting up and going. We get on fantastically too but imo it's just good manners.