To think that if men were 'in charge' of Christmas it would be a lot less stressful all round?

[PeanutButterIsEverything]

Trying not to make this a sexist all men are lazy bastards type thread but I have seen so many threads about women getting really stressed about all the stuff there is to do with Christmas and I feel the same pressure to do it all. But my husband doesn't get stressed this time of year. He buys presents for his family and that's about it. He doesn't see the need for much of the other stuff.

I know there's a lot of talk about much of Christmas being 'wifework' and I do think that's true, we do take on a lot more of the mental load, the endless lists, recipe planning (and making freezer space, planning what to feed the relatives all the other days not just Christmas day), school plays, Christmas jumper days etc etc etc. And how much of this is necessary? Very little. We do it to make Christmas special but it's not needed, we've just got ourselves as women and society to a place where we feel that somehow we are failing if we don't send all the neighbours a card when we've not spoken to them all year, or we don't find the perfect gift for the teacher. I know lots of it is marketing driven but I think the marketing must be directed at women as they know we are the ones that buy all the food, many of the presents,, decorations and all the extra gubbins.

But don't leave it to the men or it won't get done, I hear you cry! But would that really be so bad? Maybe they wouldn't see the point. Christmas would be a lot more streamlined and less stressful I reckon. Not sure it's possible now though, we have built the Christmas juggernaut and now we have to keep driving it! So it's not men bashing, almost the opposite, maybe they have the right idea.

Thoughts?

A lot of it is for the DCs benefit. DH doesn't see the point in Chrsitmas jumpers, but then the DCs would be upset if they were the only ones in their normal school jumpers on Christmas jumper day at school.

DH likes a lot of the Christmas traditions we do, but just expects them to just happen. (Like the panto!). I hope this will have made him think a bit.

Men are totally capable of organizing Christmas, totally daft to say otherwise? Exactly the same as saying a man can’t look after a newborn - of course they can, they just need the opportunity to be shown that they are capable.

Of course they're capable. Yes DH could look after a newborn - he did with DD - but he wouldn't put having special fancy food and candles on a par with caring for a newborn. He couldn't be arsed with all the fancy stuff at xmas. He's happy with a tree a basic roast and a present. If it were up to him we'd have that (not very well cooked) and that would be totally it. The basics.

If i want help with all the fancy stuff DH'll do it with me without any begrudge. Even though they're 'my' ideas and he wouldn't give a hoot if they weren't there. That's the point of the thread. Would men even bother with the little bits which take so much effort if it was left to them? No in my case. But he's not a miserable incapable arse.

oh but yes, I think Elf on the Shelf does just sound like hard work! We didn't bother and finally at nearly 8, DC1 is asking why we don't when other people have one. I said we just didn't get one to visit. Friends who do it 'properly' have spreadsheets and start planning each night's events/buying props back in August ! Life is too short!

The schools have gone mad and really need to turn it down. The whole start in august thing is mad too. Ignore . if we all had the sense not to book a Santa visit until DEC 15 it would be better.

Generally, men either don't need to or have more sense than to do a lot of make work and then whine about it. They don't wear stupid shoes and complain that feet hurt, they don't worry about being seen uncoated in makeup, they don't waste fortunes on stinky candles or overpriced gift sets.

Be like men, it is easier.

Why is it stressful at all no matter who does it?

It is a roast dinner. The shops are only shut for 2 days. Why are people buying enough food for an army?

Mook that's a particularly British thing - I have 3 kids at school, and it's school as normal til Friday lunch time. One child has an evening theatre performance and sports teams have Christmas parties (but they have summer parties too, there was no particular Christmas theme to the party except in the food and drink).

I do hate the Primary school parents class by class involvement in the local Christmas market now - I used to quite like it, but now it's turned into some horrible competitive excessively complicated weirdness with a side order of emotional blackmail to be involved and cheer-lead about how fabulous and creative it all is.... and I was glad to be working on the day - first year none of us have bothered going.

I am so glad that my kids are not in the British school system at Christmas.

Would men even bother with the little bits which take so much effort if it was left to them? No in my case. But he's not a miserable incapable arse

Mine would. He’s the one who insists on an 8ft real tree. Takes the DD’s to garden centres to choose new special baubles for the tree. Writes lists of the things he’s going to cook over Christmas and what ingredients he needs. Picks things up for the DD’s stockings when he sees something they’d like.

Because some people are feeding an army niki. Not unheard of to host and have 10/15 people at xmas.

Weather we should bother or not is the question

We, as women, compete with other women much harder than we admit and there is an innate bullying in trying to make other women feel that they aren't getting it right. Christmas is the pinnacle of this behaviour.

I think this is spot on, a lot of women do seem to make everything family related very competitive & pile the pressure on each other. And the over-complication of everything drives me mad!!

For us, Christmas Dinner is not much different from any other roast we'd have except we have a started & pigs in blankets.

Christmas Day is great, sit around in PJ's drinking Bucks Fizz & eating chocolate until midday, huge meal & then sit around drinking & eating until waddling off to bed....

No visitors, no visits - that's for Boxing Day (if at all).

Absolutely nothing to get stressed about - on the day or in the run up....

I think it is important to separate what really matters, from what doesn't. If you want to do the stuff that doesn't really matter, fine. But be aware that you are making a choice.
So I make cranberry sauce, no one else really cares, but I love it and it tastes so much better than ready made ones.
But I don't make 5 different desserts. Xmas pudding here, thats it. There is always lots of other chocolates and cake knocking around anyway.

I think much the same could be said of weddings

What matters for Christmas is -

• having a nice roast dinner
• presents, especially for kids
• some decorations
• visit to santa for little ones
• anything that kids will feel very left out if you don't do such as xmas jumpers at school
• any tradition that you really enjoy

If men were judged as much as women on the Christmas they put on for their families.

If men's identities were as tied up in "am I being a good enough father/partner/son/brother?" as women's are.

Then men would be just as competitive about the wonderful Christmas they'd put on, and would definitely invent a load of extra things to show how wonderful they are, and would stress themselves out.

I agree with much of what you say OP. There is now so much media telling us how to have the "perfect" Christmas and that seems to consist of spending huge amounts of money not just on man gifts but on extras such as Christmas Eve boxes which seem to be a thing now.
Then there's the pressure to decorate the house taste fully and then the food... I am a keen and competent cook but I just look at many of the recipe suggestions for Christmas and think "sod that".
I don't feel stressed because I choose not to join in much of the madness. It is optional. I try and do recipes that I know and can be prepared in advance and avoid "fussy food". I am also a bit of a list maker so try and buy and freeze as much as possible n advance.
But to go back to your original point, I think men would have a simpler Christmas, partly because they tend to be less people pleasers and less susceptible to social pressure to be domestic gods.

"MAIN" gifts (dodgy i on my keyboard!)

Trills they are very good points. But it is good to question what you do. When I was younger my identity was too much tied up with those things. Now I am older, I can see that much of it was unnecessary.

I wish people would stop doing Christmas cards. I appreciate they had a meaning in years gone by when you didn't see or speak to old friends and this was the only contact, but it's so pointless now. And as the OP says, why give cards to people you never speak to the rest of the year?

I don't even know their names and their handwriting is illegible from their cards, so I have to somehow work out how to send them a card back when we don't know their name, or they'll think we're the height of rudeness. It's a small thing to fret over but it all adds up.

And don't get me started on KS1 children cards for the whole class. This year I finally said sod it and didn't do any!

And trying to find addresses for all the people who sent you cards, it takes forever, and you get hand cramp.

Scrap the cards, and I'd just about be able to cope with Christmas!

Also kids really don't do tasteful decorations. Don't read the articles about how to have a perfect Christmas. I like our tree, but when you look at ones in magazines the decoration does not compare. So I don't look at them.

I have worked in a school for years on and off ( not teaching- a mere minion) and noticed a huge change over the years with the christmas things going a bit over the top - its neverending these days.

I agree with you entirely OP. It wouldn't matter a bit and I think it would actually be a good thing because regardless of the modest Christmas celebrations that some people have, the over-loud, pretentious and bragfests that some people prefer, encroach onto everybody's consciousness like a huge, black cloud of consumerism.

I read some poster's ideas of Christmas and they make me feel 'cosy', the sort of things that I would like to do. Others' make me shudder. If men were in charge it would be time-saving/labour-saving all the way with 'bang for your buck' but only if it's quick and easy. Sounds pretty good to me.

Some women seem to revel in 'having it all to do', refusing help but having a good moan. Makes no sense to me. I'll take help - and sincerely appreciate it - from anybody. But I don't take ownership of Christmas and an absurd 'pride' in having 'done the whole thing single-handedly'.

Everybody's Christmas should be what they want it to be and I hope it will be. I would just rather that the ones who like it 'over-blown' don't try make others feel that that's the way it needs to be and if you don't have it that way, then you've somehow failed. I like stress-free for everything.

If men were judged as much as women on the Christmas they put on for their families.

Judged by who?

It's the same every fucking year on mumsnet. Grown women moaning about how much they have to do at Xmas, and just how unfair it is

You. Don't. Have. To. Do. It.

There's no ministry of Christmas inspections. No one's going to Parkhurst for not doing elf on a shelf. I've checked the court listings and no-ones been given unpaid work placements for shit Xmas eve hampers. Too busy for that stuff? Don't do it.

For fucks sake stop blaming society/men/the patriarchy for the stress of Xmas. It's not compulsory.

we've just got ourselves as women and society to a place where we feel that somehow we are failing if we don't send all the neighbours a card when we've not spoken to them all year, or we don't find the perfect gift for the teacher

Speak for yourself

Basically everything Trills said. This thread is basically women telling other women that they are doing it wrong and if only we'd be like the men then it would all be fine.

Individuals put this pressure on themselves? Lol.

So all the millions poured into advertising in the xmas period are completely ineffective and companies should just save themselves the effort eh?

People with things to sell put pressure on (mainly) women to deliver a special christmas that includes any number of completely irrelevant things that said people just so happen to sell.

It isn't rocket science...and no, the pressure most certainly does not come from within.

I don't really recognise most of these situations. Dh and I share most of the Christmas 'load'. Yes, I do more than what might be considered my fair share of the food prep, but I like doing that. Dh OTOH does the cards. I do the decorating, he does the cleaning. I do the daytime school shows, he does the job with the greater income, we both do the evening shows.

We talk about what we want to do, make an effort for things that the other wants, let slide things that don't matter that much or stress us out.

There's no point in Christmas for non-believers unless it's pleasurable.