about the childminder and conjunctivitis

[mikesh909]

Background: DD is 1 and attends a childminder usually 3 days per week. This week she is booked in for all 5 days due to a temporary change in my work schedule. Other than attending this childminder, she is at home with her father and me. No other groups / settings / activities. We have been so busy lately due to work commitments we have been nowhere and seen no-one.

Over the weekend DD came down with conjunctivitis. We saw a pharmacist who said nothing OTC for 1 year olds. I read the NHS website which states Public Health England advises no need to stay home from work / school / nursery (www.nhs.uk/conditions/conjunctivitis/#work-and-school). I also read their parent handbook which states 48 hr exclusion period for D&V but mild illnesses e.g. colds are acceptable. I am a teacher and its not easy for me to take days off. DH stands to lose a sizeable Christmas bonus if he takes any days off for any reason in December. DD seemed well in herself so we dropped her off as usual this morning.

By midmorning I had received notification to pick her up. I now understand that the 'mild illnesses' in the policy doesn't cover conjunctivitis. Despite the huge hassles and financial losses that this will incur, I understand that I must make alternative arrangements for the rest of the week.

In the text conversation and then later when I collected DD, the CM herself and one of her team were both very insistent that she had not contracted the infection whilst in their care. In response to this, I was equally insistent that she most likely had. I cannot see how she could have picked it up from home when neither of us have (or have ever had!) this infection and no-one else has been here. She has not been anywhere else. There are many other kids / parents at this setting and they also go on regular outings to other public places. The conversation got a little awkward in the end. I told the CM I was finding the insistence hard to take. So... 1. Was IBU to press the point that the overwhelming probability is that my DD picked up this infection whilst in their care? I need to contact them to confirm her hours for January - 2. Would IBU to mention it in writing? Her response at the time was about protecting the other children - which indicates to me she hasn't really understood my point. I.e. that I know I need to keep DD at home for that exact purpose, but nonetheless I'm unhappy with their obstinance.

Yes - you were unreasonable.

I think you were BU by pressing the point. It doesn’t really matter where she caught it from, she has it.

As a childminder I do not, and am not required to, exclude children with conjunctivitis as long as it’s being treated. Usually this involves a cream.

If the CM's policy is vague so OP checked the NHS advice which stated there was no need for exclusion why would OP specifically mention to the CM? How was OP meant to know that many CM's ignore modern medical Public Health advice?

I'm only glad I don't have the same CM and all the CMs or nurseries I've used have been sensible about accepting or sending kids home. My children were only sent home once on account of chicken pox and even then it was more a question of coming to pick kid up as normal unless we wanted to go to GP or something, there was no massive rush as kid was well in herself. Of course we then waited for the chicken pox to clear in the normal way before sending her back in. For conjunctivitis, colds, mild fever even, my kids have gone in.
Funny though how OP assumed that the illness had to be caught - it obviously has to start somewhere LOL :)

Why has this turned in to a dig about all cms?

It’s polite to mention you are bringing an unwell child, even if it’s only minor. I always ask for a hand over (written in diary if time at handover is tight). Info such as teething, had a restless night, mummy’s away for a few days etc etc. It helps us care for your child fully and you what, it’s just bloody manners to tell her so she can be hyper vigilant when caring for the child.

This is bonkers. Kids catch stuff. They pass it to each other and to us. That's what happens there's no way around it even with the most hygienic settings. As a parent unfortunately we just have to accept it and get on with it.

You are sure she caught it there. Then SENT her there to pass on to other kids!

Absoloutley unbelievable that yiu would send dd with conjunctivitis to the Cms. It is highly infectious.

Sorry OP but you sound like a bloody nightmare!
Kids get ill all the time, you work in a school, you know this.
Your dogged determination in arguing the toss about where they may or not have got it from is, quite frankly bonkers.
A word of advice from a childcare old timer just coming out the other side after 15 years- keep them on your side, you'll find life much easier....
But no doubt you'll reply to me telling me I'm wrong

Why does it matter where DD picked up the infection?
She might have not washed her hand and then put her finger in her eye.
You don't have to catch conjunctivitis from someone, although it is ver infectious.

If you want to keep a good relationship with the CM, I'd drop it.

Childminder here. I don't exclude for conjunctivitis but my friend and fellow childminder does.
I just clean toys a child with conjunctivitis has been playing with and carefully clear their eyes when needed. A child had conjunctivitis in my setting today, a very mild form. I just mentioned it to Mum at pick up, and said they might want to get some drops from chemist just in case it develops. Child has had a cold for forever and always develops conjunctivitis when he gets a cold. He doesn't contract it from anyone, it just develops from the extreme amount of snot built up in his face. Can't be helped. Not my fault, not parent's fault, just happens.
I'd be really annoyed if someone laboured a false point about them catching something from my setting. Had D&V in the setting earlier this autumn. Sent home/excluded when needed but it was so prevalent that lots of the kids I mind ended up with it. It's so hard to prevent children from catching illnesses off each other in childcare and School settings. Even if your DD did catch conjunctivitis from someone at your CM's setting, as pp's have already said, why even bother bringing it up?!?

It wasn't me who dropped her off and it wasn't the CM herself who took her in. But yes, my partner mentioned that she had been under the weather over the weekend.

Was conjunctivitis actually mentioned though?

Because the only complaint I see that you could reasonably have is that when dropped off your partner said "She's got conjunctivitis" and the assistant(?) said "Ok" and then you were later asked to pick her up.

If you didn't actually tell them that shae has conjunctivitis then that may also add to how pissed off the CM was with your "she caught it at your setting" stance, if to them you just sent her in with a highly contagious issue and didn't even tell them (and, imo, 'she's been under the weather' isn't an acceptable thing to say if you know it's contagious - even if it's not excludable, it's just manners to let them know).

You come across quite badly OP, despite numerous pp pointing out that there are numerous ways of developing conjunctivitis other than catching it off an infected person you're still making it clear you think it's very likely she "caught" it there. You come across as a know it all I'm afraid and you owe the CM an apology.

Op is unfairly getting a hard time.

Conjunctivitis is not excludable from childcare settings. In the NHS guidelines, public health England, uk government advice. There is no need to exclude.

And yet the poor op is getting pillored by posters who apparently know better than the experts....

The Childminder is entitled to make her own illness policy, however she actually needs to make this policy and show it to parents so they can decide whether or not they want to use her services, and use it to plan ahead when their dc is unwell.

What is unprofessional is not bothering to write a proper illness policy (which mentions common illnesses) and then making ad hoc decisions on the day.

If she doesn't want to write it herself she can always use the one on public health England (which says conjunctivitis is fine!)

Op I wouldn't bother to press the question of where she caught it, you will go round in circles and piss each other off

Instead try and get her to write an illness policy for going forward

Personally I couldn't use a child care option which was so vague

Children and babies can easily get conjunctivitis it's impossible to say where it's caught from, it's quite likely she rubbed her nose and then her eyes and voila that's all you need to get it if yours a little child. I know this as my son was very susceptible to conjunctivitis as a baby/toddler because his tear ducts didn't drain as they should. It was a nuisance and not pleasant but we treated him with the drops and kept him home until he was better.

I think you were unreasonable to argue with the childminder and I think you would be very unreasonable to put it in writing.

It doesn't matter how she picked it up, it's not the childminder's fault. She couldn't stop you sending your child when you knew she had an infection. Some other parent could have done the same thing. Or she could have caught it some other way as other people have pointed out.
My son caught it when he had a cold and he was rubbing his eyes after rubbing his nose.

There is a woman who sends her kids to my childminder every single time they are sick. When they ring her she always blames them. They hate Her now and are considering refusing to mind them anymore. They've put my son in hospital twice. Don't be that parent. If you can see she's not well please don't send her. It's it fair on the other kids.

I've had to close my business and my husband has had to take time off at our own expense to look after our son when he's been sick, that's life. You don't need to prove to her that you are right. You're very possibly not and she won't forget it. Why would you want to piss off the person who is caring for your child?

You're a teacher?

Have a good look at yourself in the mirror. You're the kind of parent teachers dread, and commiserate on/ laugh at in the staffroom. Give yourself a good shake. It's fucking ridiculous to get so wrapped up in this "but I'M RIGHT!!" mentality.

It’s also worth noting that if you’re happy to send an unwell child to a cm, you can’t be too surprised when she has to take a day off eventually because she or her kids get something badly. Then you’ll be morning about that. Times by how many kids she looks after bringing all their illnesses along.

I have no idea what you hoped to gain from insisting that your dd got conjunctivitis st the CM. So what? How I'll that change anything. You sound rather insufferable- do you always have to be right?

So actually, I would argue the infection isn't likely to have been picked up with her, as she doesn't accept infected children into her care.
Bloody good point

When my dc were tiny, pre nursery, when they had a snotty cold and rubbed their noses, they then rubbed their eyes. This would cause conjunctivitis. They were usually prescribed ointment by the gp. Kids getting sick at the most inopportune moments is par for the course. No, I would not mention it any further. You now know cj is not considered by your cm as a mild illness. Move on.

I am a childminder in Scotland and the Care inspectorate issued childminders with the new guidelines with regard to a child having conjunctivitis last week. They state that you do not have to exclude a child with conjunctivitis , also that the child does not necessarily need eye drops . The condition can be manage by high standard and frequency of hand wash by both staff and children. Separate hand towels and maintaining a clean environment and equipment.

Im surprised you made alternative plans for the week. 24 hrs of bathing in salt water could sort it out.

I'm a pharmacist- I agree the case is likely viral, snot from nose rubbed in eye- membranes of eyes become infected/compromised and are exposed to secondary bacterial infection. In reality she maybe caught it from herself.

I'd build a better relationship with CM and work with her to understand her policies. Talk about situations that arise normally/non confrontationally, and devise a plan of action. Comprise could be 24 hours bathing eye and reducing infection before returning to setting. Many settings exclude for 24 hours then allow back with treatment plan in place (drops or bathing). But the real issue here is the relationship dynamic between you and the CM.

So now you know you were wrong, are you going to apologise to the childminder for being so rude?

The guidelines are just that: guidelines.
They were not written by childcarers caring for several children at a time, nor even with our needs in mind.
They merely address infection control from a medical point of view.

The writers have never tried to care for several toddlers to a professional standard whilst trying to see properly through sore, gunked up conjunctivitis. If they had, or had tried to do our job while trying to cope with these illnesses they deem non-excludable, the guidelines would be very different.

Our own guidelines may be different because we're trying to balance the needs of all our children, and ourselves. We're not just trying to get parents into work as fast as possible while their children languish miserably in childcare settings, spreading their germs and too poorly to enjoy their day.

I'm experienced enough to make my own decisions on whether a child can or cannot attend and I make it clear to parents which illnesses I exclude and why.

The guidelines are just that: guidelines. We don't have to follow them.
We do have to follow the EYFS and prevent illness from spreading in our setting. How we do that is down to our professional judgement.

About time people like the Op stopped treating us like awkward, stubborn children and regarded us as the professionals we are and respected the decisions we make for the good of all our families.

You can catch stuff anywhere. You or DH could have passed it on via your hand, having handled a ten pound note IYSWIM. Anyway, as a poster says above, it can be contracted by itself. YABU.