about the childminder and conjunctivitis

[mikesh909]

Background: DD is 1 and attends a childminder usually 3 days per week. This week she is booked in for all 5 days due to a temporary change in my work schedule. Other than attending this childminder, she is at home with her father and me. No other groups / settings / activities. We have been so busy lately due to work commitments we have been nowhere and seen no-one.

Over the weekend DD came down with conjunctivitis. We saw a pharmacist who said nothing OTC for 1 year olds. I read the NHS website which states Public Health England advises no need to stay home from work / school / nursery (www.nhs.uk/conditions/conjunctivitis/#work-and-school). I also read their parent handbook which states 48 hr exclusion period for D&V but mild illnesses e.g. colds are acceptable. I am a teacher and its not easy for me to take days off. DH stands to lose a sizeable Christmas bonus if he takes any days off for any reason in December. DD seemed well in herself so we dropped her off as usual this morning.

By midmorning I had received notification to pick her up. I now understand that the 'mild illnesses' in the policy doesn't cover conjunctivitis. Despite the huge hassles and financial losses that this will incur, I understand that I must make alternative arrangements for the rest of the week.

In the text conversation and then later when I collected DD, the CM herself and one of her team were both very insistent that she had not contracted the infection whilst in their care. In response to this, I was equally insistent that she most likely had. I cannot see how she could have picked it up from home when neither of us have (or have ever had!) this infection and no-one else has been here. She has not been anywhere else. There are many other kids / parents at this setting and they also go on regular outings to other public places. The conversation got a little awkward in the end. I told the CM I was finding the insistence hard to take. So... 1. Was IBU to press the point that the overwhelming probability is that my DD picked up this infection whilst in their care? I need to contact them to confirm her hours for January - 2. Would IBU to mention it in writing? Her response at the time was about protecting the other children - which indicates to me she hasn't really understood my point. I.e. that I know I need to keep DD at home for that exact purpose, but nonetheless I'm unhappy with their obstinance.

Why does it matter so much where your child got it from?? YABU. Children will pass on illnesses and you'll have to deal with it. Why do you want to put it in writing? What do you want to achieve? Hostility? Lack of trust? If you don't trust her, find a new one. It sounds like you don't value your childminder. Mine is highly valued as she loves my children, looks after them and makes it possible for me to work. I couldn't be without her and I wouldn't want to undermine her.

I think it is also quite possible that you have brought the virus home from the school you teach in on hands/books/other items. You could have passed it onto your child without getting it yourself. That said I understand it is extremely difficult and stressful to find emergency child care as a teacher as you usually can't just take unpaid leave etc.

I remember we had a right nightmare with nursery over this, they wanted to exclude and get an all clear from the GP, the GP refused to see see DC because it wasn't an exclusion illness, GP sent me links to send to nursery. In the end I just took DC back to nursery and said they and GP could fight it out but I couldn't follow their policy because the GP quite rightly felt they had better things to do with their time. It doesn't help when child care providers don't keep up to date with medical advice.

It seems a bit much that the childminder won't take her. At my LO's nursery they're fine to come in as long as they've been to the Drs and it's being treated as per their recommendations. Nursery's and childminders would be out of business if children had to be kept home for every little thing - including snotty eyes!

Here is some info on it, since you asked emedicine.medscape.com/article/211738-clinical#b1

I don't think you did wrong sending her in as NHS/HPO advice - as you rightly pointed out - says you don't have to exclude.

You can however get viral conjunctivitis which they can give to themselves - so she didn't necessarily pick it up from CM.

My nursery does accept children with conjunctivitis now in line with NHS/HPO guidelines and I can honestly say DS2 has not had it any more than DS1 - who was there when they did exclude for it.

I don't think you were unreasonable for sending her as you did check what you could first - but it is up to your CM whether they accept them or not - it's their setting. So it's either a case of accepting that or finding a CM/nursery that do take them.

OP I am a HCP and although I would keep my children off school with conjunctivitis, I have previously been expected to go to work with it!

Anyway, has your dd had a runny nose at all? Bit gross but...... when children have a runny nose and rub it round their face, they can get conjunctivitis

Sorry but I think yabu, I wouldn't have 'blamed' the CM for dd getting it, clearly she knows no one else in her care has it, otherwise she would have just said it was going around but that the others were sent home too.

You sound very stressed OP and as though this was the proverbial straw. Try not to let this become a mountain from a molehill - if you like the CM, chalk this up to experience and let it go - and I hope things get easier.

it’s defo not clear cut unless there was another affected child

To her knowledge, there is not. But as various pp have mentioned, there doesn't need to be. It could have come from another child with a cold or various other sources.

You sound really angry, and I don't really understand why.

I'm not really angry but I am frustrated by the situation. As I've said this feels like one difficulty too many to cope with. It's going to have fairly serious knock on financial consequences for us going into the new year. I teach adults, get paid sessionally and as such missed classes are unpaid. As are holidays, so December is already difficult. I have already mentioned the hundreds of pounds that my DH is going to lose as a result of missed days. The CM will rightly expect to be paid for the full 5 days this week (not the usual 3). I've been ill myself as has my DH, to the point that I had to cancel seeing his family to celebrate Christmas yesterday, disappointing everybody. And I'm currently struggling through the first trimester with difficulty. I'm not expecting anyone to make allowances for any of those things, they are all mine to deal with. It just felt too much when they refused to even accept the possibility that the origin of the infection lies with their setting. I suppose I just wanted (unreasonably!) them to accept that.

Anyway, I won't be saying anything further in writing or otherwise.

I'd let this go really. You can't guarantee the source of your child's infection, even if you suspect..and they'll get more nasties to contend with throughout their childcare/ school life. Unless you want your relationship to break down completely with the CM ...I know it's hard as a working parent but they're her rules obviously.

Even if your child picked it up at the childminders how is that her fault? Unless she permitted another parent to leave a child with it in her care which is EXACTLY what you wanted to do.

Your kid could have gotten it literally anywhere, including your home. You know it can be an allergy and not just an infection....

YWVU and rude. I'm not sure there was any point in treating your CM like that. What outcome were you hoping for?

Ah OP, you're having a shit time and clearly lost sight of who to be mad at. Hope you feel better soon.

Sorry you're having a rough time mikesh. I hope you and the little one feel better soon.

If it helps to see things from a childminder's point of view (I am one!), we do get people deliberately trying it on and sending infectious kids in to us (I completely believe this isn't what you did), we also get people giving us stick if we are the source of a bug. On top of that we are also self employed and lose money if we're too ill to work. I expect you both got frustrated with each other. Perhaps tomorrow when you've both calmed down a bit you can ask if she'll let you send her in with a gp letter or once the gunk has gone from the eyes.

I think you really should have thought things through before accusing the childminder. Even if a child picks up VD from a setting it's not a reason to send them in whilst still contagious. Same with eye infections, same with chickenpox, same with hand, foot and mouth.
Firstly, there is absolutely no way for you to know if your child got it from there, as many other posters have said.

Secondly, I think you should listen to what others are saying. You asked a question, people answered. You are not happy with their answer and still think you are right.

Ugh. No wonder the childminder is a bit to be honest you sound like a PITA. Why post AIBU if you ‘know’ you’re right.

Was IBU to press the point that the overwhelming probability is that my DD picked up this infection whilst in their care?

Yes YWBU. It could’ve come from absolutely anywhere - even you! Conjunctivitis actually comes in two forms, viral and bacterial both picked up in various different ways. Little kids, as you know can be particularly snotty and they can get it from just being snotty.

2. Would IBU to mention it in writing?

Absolutely 100% unreasonable. Over the many years of child care your DD will have be it a childminder, nursery or school, she will pick up Every. Damn. Thing. She will also very kindly bring it all home just for you and your significant other to enjoy whilst she is perfectly well too! That’s my favourite. If you take this attitude, get ready to write A LOT of letters. Unfortunately, that’s why you just sometimes have to decide that not sending them to stop the spread is actually just the best thing to do.

I’m a working mother, I know it’s inconvenient, more than inconvenient. The amount of times I’ve had to take the financial hit and deal with it because DD has been unwell (once with conjunctivitis, she was really poorly with it) numerous times and it was worrying but in the end you have to just accept that whilst you have a small kid, this is going to happen.

It is what it is.

It doesn’t matter how she got it.

What does matter is thatyour childminder has asked you to collect a child who is well in themselves for a condition that is not on the nhs exclusion list and is not something which needs one.

I would change Childminder’s

Twofishfingers have you read the thread?

I asked two question. Was I unreasonable to have disagreed with their insistence and would I be unreasonable to say anything further. Some people answered it. Various posters have explained about the nature of conjunctivitis infections and in response I've acknowledged my lack of knowledge and asked for links for reading material. I've said twice that I'll apologise if I was wrong. Various other posters have said things to the effect of 'drop it - nothing good can come of it' - and I have acknowledged (twice I think) that they are right.

Some other people commented on the general situation and expressed their opinion that it was unreasonable to send her in at all. That wasn't the question I asked. Nonetheless I've listened to those comments and I've said I remain happy with our decision to send DD in this morning and explained why that is. Incidentally, there are many posters who agree with me here and I've listened to them also.

So please, don't tell me I'm not listening to what others are saying. I'm listening to and hearing everything that's being said. Perhaps you should try reading a little more carefully before making comments like that.

My kids used to get conjunctivitis in the winter, they have a snotty nose which they touch with their hands and then touch their eyes. You can't watch them 24/7
"Most pink eyes in children are caused by infections (and usually from wiping snot from the nose to the eye area!), Infectious pink eye can be bacterial or viral. Both are really easy to spread."
YABU, it's a pain, I gave up work in the end. Apologise to your CM and suck it up.

Perhaps you should try reading a little more carefully before making comments like that.

Perhaps you should research an illness before wrongly, rudely and forcefully accusing your CM of being the cause. Perhaps instead of asking for links about this illness you should do some research yourself.

I think it would be fair enough to question the exclusion policy as NHS guidelines have changed. You've just picked the wrong battle on this occasion.

OP you sound really stressed and given the things going on in your life at the moment I think that is understandable.
YABU and I think you have realised it now. In the words of Elsa, time to Let it Go, for the sake of your blood pressure.
Can anyone else in the family help with childcare? Can your husband "work from home"? Maybe you have to think about whose salary takes the biggest hit and work accordingly?
Is there some solution to your immediate childcare issue?
I hope you feel better soon and think you need to take some deep breaths and try to calm down. Can you have a nice relaxing bath tonight? And try to get an early night?
Hope things get better, tomorrow is another day

*Perhaps you should try reading a little more carefully before making comments like that.

Perhaps you should research an illness before wrongly, rudely and forcefully accusing your CM of being the cause. Perhaps instead of asking for links about this illness you should do some research yourself*

What is your connection between these two statements other than you also cleverly started yours with 'perhaps'?

You make a valid point about my researching the illness. I asked for links because its often easier for a knowledgeable party to refer to a reputable source. Neither of these have anything to do with my response to the pp, in which I explained how I have in fact listened to everything that's been said.

Life sounds tough for you right now; good on you for recognising that this has played a role in your reactions.

Hope your daughter feels better soon and you all have a good Christmas.

Did you tell the CM at drop off that she had conjunctivitis?

DD1, when she was at nursery, caught conjunctivitis repeatedly and every time, she had to be withdrawn until it was cleared up. I was a single mum who worked full time and my only option was to either take holidays or unpaid leave. This was in the late 1990's and I suffered from a distinct lack of understand from my male chauvinist boss who couldn't understand why I didn't have adequate childcare provision.

At least now there is a law which states you can have unpaid leave caring for a dependent. I ended up losing my job back then.

Oh and btw, expect much more of this. D&V, colds, infections, viruses, chicken pox. A child in nursery gets everything going, I doubt a child minder is much different. And if they don't catch it there, they'll catch it at school.

Just don't keep banging on about where she caught it.