about the childminder and conjunctivitis

[mikesh909]

Background: DD is 1 and attends a childminder usually 3 days per week. This week she is booked in for all 5 days due to a temporary change in my work schedule. Other than attending this childminder, she is at home with her father and me. No other groups / settings / activities. We have been so busy lately due to work commitments we have been nowhere and seen no-one.

Over the weekend DD came down with conjunctivitis. We saw a pharmacist who said nothing OTC for 1 year olds. I read the NHS website which states Public Health England advises no need to stay home from work / school / nursery (www.nhs.uk/conditions/conjunctivitis/#work-and-school). I also read their parent handbook which states 48 hr exclusion period for D&V but mild illnesses e.g. colds are acceptable. I am a teacher and its not easy for me to take days off. DH stands to lose a sizeable Christmas bonus if he takes any days off for any reason in December. DD seemed well in herself so we dropped her off as usual this morning.

By midmorning I had received notification to pick her up. I now understand that the 'mild illnesses' in the policy doesn't cover conjunctivitis. Despite the huge hassles and financial losses that this will incur, I understand that I must make alternative arrangements for the rest of the week.

In the text conversation and then later when I collected DD, the CM herself and one of her team were both very insistent that she had not contracted the infection whilst in their care. In response to this, I was equally insistent that she most likely had. I cannot see how she could have picked it up from home when neither of us have (or have ever had!) this infection and no-one else has been here. She has not been anywhere else. There are many other kids / parents at this setting and they also go on regular outings to other public places. The conversation got a little awkward in the end. I told the CM I was finding the insistence hard to take. So... 1. Was IBU to press the point that the overwhelming probability is that my DD picked up this infection whilst in their care? I need to contact them to confirm her hours for January - 2. Would IBU to mention it in writing? Her response at the time was about protecting the other children - which indicates to me she hasn't really understood my point. I.e. that I know I need to keep DD at home for that exact purpose, but nonetheless I'm unhappy with their obstinance.

In answer to your actual question I think you probably got her back up by sending your child and it’s unreasonable for either of you to insist about how she got it.
I wouldn’t mention it in writing; I’d drop it before it becomes an even bigger issue

Christ on a bike OP, you write like a teacher

1. She can give herself conjunctivitis by running snot in her eyes I think?

1. Mine have never been asked to stay home with it as the NHS guidance says come in. I've had CM, nursery and school day the same thing.

I'd drop it though.

User

I completely agree with your last sentence.

I remember the policy at my daughters nursery was once it had treatment applied to it they could go back in the next day thag was about 4 years ago maybe things have changed. But yes i dont remember any child having to stay off for a extended period once eye drops etc had been applied x

Have you read Fenella's explanation? I had conjunctivitis last week due to plaster dust (according to helpful pharmacist, no one else in my family had it as they hadn't been sweeping up plaster).
So it is possible that your child did not get it at the CM's and therefore you were unreasonable to insist.

Fenella is absolutely correct. She may not have picked it up from anyone. I don't think trying to argue with your CM over the origins is productive if you intend to keep a good relationship with them.

Understandably frustrating to be in your position but I think sometimes you just need to let some things go.

My friend caught conjunctivitis after a building job at her home, it was the plaster dust.

Yes you would be unreasonable to keep labouring the point. Why are you so desperate for her to agree it was picked up at her setting? To what purpose?! It doesn't change the fact that your child now has it and she wants her to not come. If you want to dig your heels in and argue with her then at least do it over something useful like her policy of excluding against medical advice.

What difference does it make?

So, it's not ok for your dd to pick up conjunctivitis from childminder, but it's absolutely fine for her to spread it around at same childminder?
Yabu.

I didn't say that. It's unfortunate that she picked it up there but as a PP stated that's life. We are working parents and have no choice about using childcare.

Anyway, it is irrelevant how inconvenient it is to you (unfortunately) as you can’t send a child with an infection like this or D and V into a setting.

Conjunctivitis is a business as usual infection. I wrote a large feature about this for a magazine in a previous life time. All medical opinion is to leave it unless it’s a tiny baby or especially bad To carry on with your day. There is no need to exclude from settings.

The advice that we received was in line with what TheHungryDonkey said. Check the link in the OP to confirm for yourself. The handbook made no mention of exclusion for conjunctivitis. I make no apologies for following the advice I received. As soon as the setting asked that she be collected, we did so and she won't be returning this side of Christmas.

I don’t think you quite understand how conjunctivitis works.

It's true, I don't. I have no medical knowledge. Can Fenella or someone else link to something I can read? If it turns out I am wrong and in fact it's NOT likely to have been contracted there, I will certainly apologise.

I've had conjunctivitis quite a few times but have usually not knowingly been in contact with someone else with it, so actually I find you really quite unreasonable. I also sincerely hope you communicate better as a teacher than you have demonstrated in this post.

Genuine question- why does it matter where she got it from?

I can see both sides NHS guidelines say it's fine to send so I don't feel realistically you did anything wrong.

That said I currently have a snotty, coughing three year old at home from nursery who I didn't send in because we had a Christmas ruined by a chest infection in our oldest that was doing the rounds at nursery and I couldn't feel responsible for doing that to the nursery children and teachers by sending my small in.

Maybe a nursery would be a better option for your childcare? They tend to be more open to following NHS guidelines in my experience (have used both nursery and childminder in the past)

I think you should apologise to her anyway, trying to get her to admit she got it from the childminder was ridiculous and really made no difference!

The origin is irrelevant. You wouldn't expect them to take a child with pox or a sick bug because another child had also been ill with it.

When local GPs stopped prescribing antibiotics for conjunctivitis, our nursery changed its policy to say they will take them with it. It was awful at first, kids and staff passing it between one another. But they said they couldn't exclude for it because it can last a week or two and there's no suitable treatment for under 2s. And it is minor. Ultimately you have to respect the CM's policy, but our nursery felt it was not proportionate o exclude for it.

Sorry about your DD, hope she doesn’t suffer with it too badly.

1) Was IBU to press the point that the overwhelming probability is that my DD picked up this infection whilst in their care? I need to contact them to confirm her hours for January.
Yes you were BU. It doesn’t matter where she got it, just like it wouldn’t matter where she got flu/D&V etc. Your DD may be ok with it but it can be really nasty, not to mention highly contagious which is hard at any time of year let alone the week before Xmas.

2) Would IBU to mention it in writing? Her response at the time was about protecting the other children - which indicates to me she hasn't really understood my point. I.e. that I know I need to keep DD at home for that exact purpose, but nonetheless I'm unhappy with their obstinance.
I wouldn’t. Let it go. I also work in education and have a DH who can’t take time off, I know how hard it is when kids get sent home, but as a teacher you must also be able to see how the CM felt, and also how she would feel if you wrote to her about it?

The Autumn Term is a bitch and you say you’ve been really busy: hope your DD recovers quickly and that you all get a good rest over Xmas.

You have a bad attitude op. You are goibg to find yourself looking for new childcare.

We are working parents and have no choice about using childcare

Not all working parents are arrogant or selfish enough to assume their work is more important than not sending their contagious child into a childcare setting because they won’t (not can’t) take a day off. You made a decision, which was that you and your DHs work is more important than anything else.

Yabu. You can get them anywhere.

YABU. You could be carrying the adenovirus that can present as conjunctivitis and be asymptomatic and given it to her. This is even more likely seen as you work in a school.

To answer your questions (and only your questions as I don't want to incur your wrath!) - yes, you were being unreasonable to "press the point" that she probably picked up the infection while in their care. Even if that could be proven to be 100% true, you don't get to decide that because conjunctivitis (or any other contagious disease) is present in the setting that more children than necessary get infected. You may feel that yours and your partner's careers are too important or inconvenient to take time off but I'm sure all the other teacher parents - and paramedics, police officers, pharmacists and whoever else is there - feel equally strongly.

2. Yes, you would be unreasonable to mention it in writing. You have accepted now that your DD needs to be home. What is gained by putting this in writing - how is it going to improve matters if she suddenly turns around and says "you know what, you're quite right, she did get conjunctivitis here". I suspect if you put it in writing you may be looking for alternative childcare sooner rather than later.

I think the childminder was being a fusspot since the chances are your child contacted this when she was there. But I don't think anybody can say for certain. I'd find a different childminder. Don't be bossed around by a determined childminder.

Conjunctivis is a viral infection that you can get without actually getting it from another person with conjunctivis. Like it's basically a cold virus of the eye. Children can just get it from another person with a cold, off door handles, any public places, etc. So it's hard to say where she got it from. It could be anywhere a cold virus could be picked up from, which includes surfaces, any random place pretty much.

That said, most places have a policy that they are kept home with conjunctivitis, some will take them back if they are antibiotics (which is dumb because it's viral, but anyway). If that's their policy, that's their policy. I don't think you can argue with it. But the reality is that if she got it from them, it doesn't necessarily need to be from another child who has conjunctivis. It could have just been a child with a virus (a cold) who wouldn't have been asked to stay home. Yes, from a public health standpoint, it doesn't make sense to exclude one and not the other, but that's how it is in most places. I wouldn't make a big fuss about it. It's just a normal childhood illness that they all get (several times usually) at that age and there's nothing they have done wrong to cause it to happen, so I don't see the point of pressing it.

The NHS website explains how people develop conjunctivitis,including explanations that aren't coming into contact with others with the disease. www.nhs.uk/conditions/conjunctivitis/causes/ The three main causes are;

1)Infection
2) Irritant to the eye
3) Allergy.

Only one of the three will be from another person, so chances are you owe your CM an apology

DS1 used to have conjunctivitis regularly due to a dust allergy, cotton wool and water and he was fine.

YABU to send your DD to your DM given that is highly contagious.

YABU to insist that she ‘caught’ it at the CM’s also. Conjunctivitis is the term used for an ‘eye infection’ that can develop due to dirt/bacteria in the eye. It doesn’t necessarily have to be ‘caught’. My DD has just had conjunctivitis and I was advised by the pharmacist that she had likely developed it because she has been poorly with flu- apparently it’s not uncommon for it to develop if your immune system is low rather than dirt in the eye.

I think your discussion with your childminder was rude and you should apologise. You have been wrong in each instance here.