about the childminder and conjunctivitis

[mikesh909]

Background: DD is 1 and attends a childminder usually 3 days per week. This week she is booked in for all 5 days due to a temporary change in my work schedule. Other than attending this childminder, she is at home with her father and me. No other groups / settings / activities. We have been so busy lately due to work commitments we have been nowhere and seen no-one.

Over the weekend DD came down with conjunctivitis. We saw a pharmacist who said nothing OTC for 1 year olds. I read the NHS website which states Public Health England advises no need to stay home from work / school / nursery (www.nhs.uk/conditions/conjunctivitis/#work-and-school). I also read their parent handbook which states 48 hr exclusion period for D&V but mild illnesses e.g. colds are acceptable. I am a teacher and its not easy for me to take days off. DH stands to lose a sizeable Christmas bonus if he takes any days off for any reason in December. DD seemed well in herself so we dropped her off as usual this morning.

By midmorning I had received notification to pick her up. I now understand that the 'mild illnesses' in the policy doesn't cover conjunctivitis. Despite the huge hassles and financial losses that this will incur, I understand that I must make alternative arrangements for the rest of the week.

In the text conversation and then later when I collected DD, the CM herself and one of her team were both very insistent that she had not contracted the infection whilst in their care. In response to this, I was equally insistent that she most likely had. I cannot see how she could have picked it up from home when neither of us have (or have ever had!) this infection and no-one else has been here. She has not been anywhere else. There are many other kids / parents at this setting and they also go on regular outings to other public places. The conversation got a little awkward in the end. I told the CM I was finding the insistence hard to take. So... 1. Was IBU to press the point that the overwhelming probability is that my DD picked up this infection whilst in their care? I need to contact them to confirm her hours for January - 2. Would IBU to mention it in writing? Her response at the time was about protecting the other children - which indicates to me she hasn't really understood my point. I.e. that I know I need to keep DD at home for that exact purpose, but nonetheless I'm unhappy with their obstinance.

Having worked in early Years for 20 years, conjunctivitis used to be an excludable illness, until it had cleared up.

Now there is no incubation period. This is NHS guidelines.

The childminder is entitled to her own policies - however hers are far from clear and seems she can pick and choose what is classed as a mild illness.

If it was just a bit of gunk and bit crusty then it could be a cold, if eye pink then yes there prob is an infection so get some cream/drops and sent your LO in.

I think it would be fair enough to question the exclusion policy as NHS guidelines have changed. You've just picked the wrong battle on this occasion.

Do you mean they've changed to exclude or to not exclude conjunctivitis? Either way, I respect the CM's right to write her own policies. If I were in her shoes, I would list common ailments and her policy on them by name in the handbook rather generalising with terms like 'mild illnesses'.

The childminder is entitled to her own policies - however hers are far from clear and seems she can pick and choose what is classed as a mild illness.

Yes, exactly!

If it was just a bit of gunk and bit crusty then it could be a cold, if eye pink then yes there prob is an infection so get some cream/drops and sent your LO in.

Her eye isn't pink. It is gunky / crusty in both eyes now though, does that make a difference? We have got a GP appointment for Wednesday.

Thank you to everyone who has offered good wishes / understanding.

Baby's can give themselves eye infections when they have runny noses and rub their faces. When they pick up toys that others have rubbed on their faces etc.
Is it life threatening no not generally. Its uncomfortable and sore and doesn't look nice and when baby pokes carer in the eye it can cause an adult to get an infection which can cause problems when driving.
Ofsted require settings to prevent infection and take steps to reduce the likely hood of cross contamination.
Doctors tend to look at things differently and use the normal hygiene precautions rule unfortunately not all baby's understand they need to catch coughs, wash hands, not mouth toys hence why an individual policy may not match current guidelines for schools.
You do not know where the infection came from and possibly keeping a child in isolation as you describe in recent weeks may not only be bad developmentally but also weaken immune systems.

There are many other kids / parents at this setting and they also go on regular outings to other public places. Many of them will spend Christmas with conjunctivitis and unlike you they will know who to blame.

Op I think you would be unreasonable to put something in writing and I think you're unreasonable to insist your DD got it at the CM.
It really doesn't matter where she got it.

You do not know where the infection came from

No, I don't know where it came from. Neither does the CM. But I believe there is a strong chance it originated whilst in their care and I resented the insistence that there was no possibility of that. It felt like an accusation.

Everything that has been said on this thread making the point that another infected person is not necessarily the source applies as much to DD's time in their care as it does to her time at home. She has encountered many more people and places and objects whilst with them than at home. Yes, it could be an allergy or have come from another person with a cold. Both of those are more likely to have been encountered in the setting than at home IMO and even if you disagree with me there, you must surely agree it is equally possible. It was wrong of me to insist because I can't be sure. But it was also wrong of them for the same reasons.

keeping a child in isolation as you describe in recent weeks may not only be bad developmentally but also weaken immune systems.

She has not been kept 'in isolation'. She has been attending the CM and participating in all their usual activities both within the setting at outside of it. The rest of the time we have been at home, trying to rest and recuperate at what is a difficult time for us.

Many of them will spend Christmas with conjunctivitis and unlike you they will know who to blame.

I hope that doesn't happen and I'm sorry if it does. In that unfortunate case, then those parents will presumably be well versed in the advice that has been offered to me here. I.e. that kids pick up everything going, it's part and parcel of being a working parent, and that you've got no choice but to get on with it however inconvenient. I stand by my decision to send her in, in accordance with medical advice, NHS guidelines and no clear guidance to the contrary from her own policy.

What was the purpose of insisting? If someone was asked to collect a child and the parent became insistent that the infection came from my setting I would take it that they were trying to push me into keeping the child or arguing as to why they were not intending pay.
In reality many people bring sick children in knowingly and end up spreading it to others then moan when their child is sick or the setting is closed because its now been passed to the cm.

I think I've explained it above?

I'd already agreed to keep her at home until she's recovered, which I fully expect to be after Christmas now and I didn't mention anything to do with payment. I've already paid this week's fees and as I said upthread, I anticipate that the CM will rightfully expect to be paid for sessions booked.

I'm a childminder. I know the gp's say it's not excludable, but I do. I and other parents don't want it. I take them back the day after it's being treated.
I don't exclude for manky eyes, just green goo!
I do have a very specific sickness policy for parents.

What is your connection between these two statements other than you also cleverly started yours with 'perhaps'?

I found your response quite condescending in that you are correcting someone for being ignorant/not having the facts as you suspect they have not read the thread correctly. I find it rich that your whole thread is an example of just that. YOU did not research conjunctivitis and YOU have acted unreasonably as a result. IMO you are in no position to correct anyone in a patronising tone.

@mikesh909

I genuinely hope things get better for your soon.

If it makes you feel any better I once sent a child home with chicken pox. Parents said the next day the spots had all gone could he come in and basically caused a fuss saying I had got it wrong etc.

They had covered the spots on the poor kids face with foundation, it came off during wet play. The kid was riddled with pox and parents didn't want the day off work!

Bloody hell Emily! That's awful. I've had siblings, the baby was very quiet all day and when I picked up his sister from school she said 'x was sick last night but dad said not to tell you'.

Op, I do think your childminder's sickness policy should be clearer actually. Conjunctivitis is such a common illness and not usually something you would exclude for so she should have made that explicitly clear.

1. yes you were being unreasonable to press the point. If one of the their other children had had conjunctivitis I'm sure they would have sent those home too. No need to keep placing blame on anyone for something that is common and will clear up.
2. I don't understand the question..: are you asking if you should mentioned the conjunctivitis again? If so then yes you are being unresonable. It's done and dusted and you've made other arrangements, if it means to put in writing on what day the child is back in nursery then as long as they've told you when the child is back there is no need to put it in writing!

I agree if childminder is not following public health advice sge should make this clear in her policies and to prospective parents.

With your work situation as it is I think you might be better with a nursery (or possibly a different childminder).

Thanks for your clarification SammySays. I could point out what logical fallacy you're committing with your line of thought there but you'd doubtless find that patronising too, so I won't.

I must correct you though, that I did in fact research conjunctivitis (see link in OP) and made my decisions on the basis of that research.

The reply to the poster to which you took objection summarised the conversation and made it clear that her accusation of my not listening to things was unfair.

have and I've asked for any links to read more about this, as I admit I'm not knowledgeable. I've also said if it turns out I am wrong, I will apologise.
How about just using google?
The nhs page explains it quite clearly!
No, I don't know where it came from. Neither does the CM. But I believe there is a strong chance it originated whilst in their care and I resented the insistence that there was no possibility of that. It felt like an accusation.

Why does it have to have been at her setting?
If none if the other kids had it then the cm is within her right to say it didn't come from there.
I've had it, I didn't catch it from anyone!
It does seem that you want to blame the cm though no matter what.
You've had a bad time, but yabu to do everything you've said.
I don't blame the cm for doing what she did.
If it was the other way around, And your child kept getting conjunctivitis, would you be happy?
I think she's being sensible.
I hope things get better for you though.

I wouldn’t bother with the gp. I just took my little on to the chemist and they gave her drops for free.

Op, I do think your childminder's sickness policy should be clearer actually. Conjunctivitis is such a common illness and not usually something you would exclude for so she should have made that explicitly clear.

I think, once everything has calmed down, I will ask her for some clarification on this policy because clearly as it stands it's not fit for purpose, if that purpose is to facilitate parental decisions about when a DC should be kept at home and consequently of that, whether it's a suitable setting given an individuals work commitments etc.

@mikesh909 in answer to your questions.

YABU on both accounts

PS you sound like bloody hard work
Life is too short take a chill pill

No I wouldn’t bother putting it in writing. It doesn’t really matter does it? She’s got it, kids pick up all sorts, just one of those things.

Thanks for your clarification SammySays. I could point out what logical fallacy you're committing with your line of thought there but you'd doubtless find that patronising too, so I won't.

Read that back to yourself OP, can you not see how incredibly rude, arrogant and patronizing you sound? Do you think that you're better than other people just because who can use long words? Is this the way that you communicate with the childminder? If so then I'm not surprised that she went on the defensive with you. She probably dreads having to speak to you!

From what you've said about your home and work situation, coupled with how you keep arguing with people on here, I think that you really need to try and put this behind you, and find a way to calm down before you completely lose the plot.

Many of them will spend Christmas with conjunctivitis and unlike you they will know who to blame

Oh ffs a bit of conjunctivitis is hardly going to ruin the whole festive period. I don't understand why it was ever excluded for, because if you exclude for that you should exclude for a runny nose. And in fact colds are worse as they can turn into chest infections in asthmatics. I was always relieved to escape Christmas without the flu or noro with a child that age.

I think you need to ask for clarification on what the CM excludes for personally. But where she caught it is irrelevant... Who knows?