about the childminder and conjunctivitis

[mikesh909]

Background: DD is 1 and attends a childminder usually 3 days per week. This week she is booked in for all 5 days due to a temporary change in my work schedule. Other than attending this childminder, she is at home with her father and me. No other groups / settings / activities. We have been so busy lately due to work commitments we have been nowhere and seen no-one.

Over the weekend DD came down with conjunctivitis. We saw a pharmacist who said nothing OTC for 1 year olds. I read the NHS website which states Public Health England advises no need to stay home from work / school / nursery (www.nhs.uk/conditions/conjunctivitis/#work-and-school). I also read their parent handbook which states 48 hr exclusion period for D&V but mild illnesses e.g. colds are acceptable. I am a teacher and its not easy for me to take days off. DH stands to lose a sizeable Christmas bonus if he takes any days off for any reason in December. DD seemed well in herself so we dropped her off as usual this morning.

By midmorning I had received notification to pick her up. I now understand that the 'mild illnesses' in the policy doesn't cover conjunctivitis. Despite the huge hassles and financial losses that this will incur, I understand that I must make alternative arrangements for the rest of the week.

In the text conversation and then later when I collected DD, the CM herself and one of her team were both very insistent that she had not contracted the infection whilst in their care. In response to this, I was equally insistent that she most likely had. I cannot see how she could have picked it up from home when neither of us have (or have ever had!) this infection and no-one else has been here. She has not been anywhere else. There are many other kids / parents at this setting and they also go on regular outings to other public places. The conversation got a little awkward in the end. I told the CM I was finding the insistence hard to take. So... 1. Was IBU to press the point that the overwhelming probability is that my DD picked up this infection whilst in their care? I need to contact them to confirm her hours for January - 2. Would IBU to mention it in writing? Her response at the time was about protecting the other children - which indicates to me she hasn't really understood my point. I.e. that I know I need to keep DD at home for that exact purpose, but nonetheless I'm unhappy with their obstinance.

I also sincerely hope you communicate better as a teacher than you have demonstrated in this post.

There's nothing wrong with my communication. There are however some posters who have chosen to answer questions I didn't ask, and I've chosen to focus my responses on the ones that have.

Have you read Fenella's explanation?

I have and I've asked for any links to read more about this, as I admit I'm not knowledgeable. I've also said if it turns out I am wrong, I will apologise.

Yes you would be unreasonable to keep labouring the point. Why are you so desperate for her to agree it was picked up at her setting? To what purpose?!

Thanks for your response to my question. You are right, it will serve no purpose. Life is hard at the moment for various reasons and this is just one thing too many to deal with and her insistence that it had not come from there just felt like too much to take. But nonetheless, you are right that nothing good can come of me saying anything more.

If you like the childminder and want to keep your child in her care, then I wouldn’t say anything else.

Conjunctivitis can be caused by an allergic reaction or if your daughter rubbed against an eye lash too aggressively, although this is very unlikely if it is in both eyes. Bacterial conjunctivitis could easily have been spread from your school via you.

Just because the NHS have a policy about certain illnesses, doesn’t mean all childcare providers will follow. Conjunctivitis and HFM are two of the common ones that some places allow children to attend with and others don’t.

I think YABU.

Hopefully she wont have your child back

Having had a quick Google which only took seconds conjunctivitis is basically a symptom of an upset eye which can be for a myriad of reasons including : bacterial, viral, allergies or chemical therefore you cannot specifically identify how your child ended up with it as it could have been anything! Therefore you cannot prove that your child got it from the childminders, your home or even just something in the air.

Can I ask, Notreallyarsed, are you a working parent? Perhaps you'd like to share your ingenious solutions for days like today, or perhaps otherwise keep your judgement to yourself?

Ansumpasty, if you have some medical knowledge about this, could you link to some reading please?

You may feel that yours and your partner's careers are too important or inconvenient to take time off but I'm sure all the other teacher parents - and paramedics, police officers, pharmacists and whoever else is there - feel equally strongly.

That's not how we feel. We took advice, from a pharmacist and the NHS website, and followed it. We were asked to collect DD and we did. We were asked to make alternative arrangements and we have.

You wouldn't expect them to take a child with pox or a sick bug because another child had also been ill with it.

That's not why we expected them to accept her today. See above.

Just because the NHS have a policy about certain illnesses, doesn’t mean all childcare providers will follow

No, but in the absence any specific mention of their non-agreement with this policy, I assumed (wrongly) that they would.

Well my nursery tried to exclude my dd because she had conjunctivitis and I emailed NHS link where it says it's not quarantined. That was that. I would be saying the same to your childminder. She went back the next day.

So you've sent her in, childminder has called for her to be collected. You've collected her and told the childminder that she must have got it from the setting. Childminder said no, as no other child has it.

You've insisted that she did as you and DH have never had it and DD hasn't left the house other than to go the childminder.

Now you want to know if yabu to contact the childminder to confirm her hours for January and insist again that she got it from there?

Yanbu to contact her to confirm hours, yabu to keep insisting that's where she has got it from. Or is that the plan, to keep insisting until the childminder gives in and says yes, that's where it came from?

Of course now if any other child comes down with it, at least the childminder can say yes it came from here as you sent your contagious daughter in!

Thanks ourkidmolly. I did include the link in the message I sent.

I actually do have sympathy for you sending her in initially - having read the posts subsequently - I wrongly assumed that conjunctivitis was an automatic ‘no no’ but I can see now that it varies from place to place. I know that isn’t actually your AIBU!

It's up to the childminder what she excludes for, she doesn't have to follow official guidance.

You really have no idea if she got it from the childminder - it could have just as easily come from you. Stamping your foot and insisting is silly.

You are completely in the wrong. Conjunctivitis could have come from anywhere. Dirt, dust, a virus that anyone could be carrying, her rubbing her eyes, an eyelash. Just some examples. You absolutely were BU to insist and very rude!

In answer to your question. Yes, yabvu to both.

Next time get your advice about whether your DC can attend from the childminder - she makes the rules.

As long as a child eye is being treated we could send ours to nursery still. We did this as she wasn't I'll in her self...

You could be carrying the adenovirus that can present as conjunctivitis and be asymptomatic and given it to her. This is even more likely seen as you work in a school

Good point. You say she couldn't have picked it up from anywhere else except the CM but you work in a school for God's sake, I'm pretty sure you are carrying all sorts of nasties

You sound like hard work Op, I feel sorry for the CM

Or is that the plan, to keep insisting until the childminder gives in and says yes, that's where it came from?

No, it's not the plan. I'm glad I asked because that's what I felt like doing but I see that no good can come of it. I think the pp who said the CM was clearly annoyed that we had sent DD in was right. I guess I resented that annoyance as to my mind it was clear she has most likely picked up the infection whilst in their care. However, I can see that 1) I don't know enough about conjunctivitis and 2) Any annoyance I feel / felt is exacerbated by everything else that's going on right now.

Yabu, doesn't really matter where she caught it and wasting your time insisting on it to the CM is pointless.

She could have got it anywhere, and you don't actually need to catch it.

I know you didn't ask but just because it's a great expense and inconvenience to you that doesn't excuse sending her to the cm in the first place

I too am really confused why does it matter where or how she got conjunctivitis?. The fact is she does have it so has been excluded to stop the infection spreading. When she goes to school will you tell the school it there’s fault she got a sickness bug? It doesn’t work like that kids get sick and often because other parents insist in putting a child with somethunb contagious into school or a childcare setting.

Unfortunately this is one of the real down sides of being a working parent when your child gets sick you have to either take a day off or hope family will help if it’s not contagious. It’s a pain and it can be expensive but it’s part of being a working parent.

I agree with other posters you need to tread carefully here with your childminder as she may very well terminate her services. After all you seem happy put your child to her when they are contagious but yet appear to be blaming her when your child gets an infection. She is preventing other kids getting it. Her job includes risk assessment and safe guarding kids. She cannot be held accountable for a child getting conjunctivitis.

In answer to your questions:

1. Was IBU to press the point that the overwhelming probability is that my DD picked up this infection whilst in their care?

Yes. What is the point of pressing this point? Your child has conjunctivitis. Why does it matter where it came from? It's very contagious, and she could have got it from anywhere she's been, whether with your or them. Or it could be a reaction to getting something in her eye.

2. Would IBU to mention it in writing?

As above.

What is it you want to happen? I don't really understand. Why are you so determined to place blame somewhere? You sound really angry, and I don't really understand why.

I am a childminder. Conjunctivitis is no longer an excludable illness BUT it is up to the individual childminder and their own policies. It usually clears up in a day or so though so prob no need to take whole week off? You really should have asked the cm whether she would have accepted your lo or not so this may have annoyed her a bit. Yabvu to make ANY comment about her definitely contracting it there as it’s defo not clear cut unless there was another affected child. Sounds like there’s not. It shouldn’t really matter either way esp since you were willing to let your child infect others.
I would definitely clarify policies for next time and apologise about insisting.

Next time get your advice about whether your DC can attend from the childminder - she makes the rules.

I did consult her handbook. But yes, this is good advice.

1st baby?

Babies pick up things like this, hand foot and mouth, molluscum, impetigo I could go on, very easily. No blame just normal every day contact.
Pick your battles with the nursery, and I don't think his should be it.

To answer your question about what you do about work, work have to find the cover for you if you have no one to help.
Could a grandparent help out?

Surely where she picked up conjunctivitus is neither here no there? What do you achieve by apportioning blame? It's a fairly common eye infection, and highly contagious, she could have gotten it anywhere, touching a slide, swing seat, railing, someones hand... anywhere. You cannot prove it, and it doesn't change anything. Your insistence is a bit odd, and pressing the issue with your childcare may sour the relationship.

Or look at it this way.

Child gets sent in with conjunctivitis. Childminder keeps them there. Another child comes down with it. First child clears up. Third child comes down with it, fourth child comes down with it, second child clears up and first child comes down with it again and so on and so on until eventually, every child has it and it keeps passing back and forth.

This happened in one of.my nurseries where parents insisted a child couldn't be excluded for it. Would you be happier for your daughter to have often so you don't miss time off work and be uncomfortable with it every time?

Under the age of 3, at a generous guess from my experience, hygiene isn't great with little ones. They cough, sneeze and slobber everywhere and don't wash their hands or manage their personal hygiene as well as older children could.

That's why it spreads so quickly.

Keep her off, let her get rid of it, send her back in after Christmas.

My last nursery had an exclusion policy of 24 hours following the eye gunking. While it wasn't NHS recommend, it was considered best practice and gave us chance to enforce the extra cleaning policy and toy switch. This meant the only toys etc in the room were washable ones and we cleaned more frequently until the run of conjunctivitis cleared up.

It's definitely not an exclusion for fun or to give carers an easier day.