Only 41% want to brexit now, time to vote again asap

[Idreamofalandrover]

www.google.co.uk/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1EA0Q6

Biggest swing towards remain now people are smelling the coffee

@Moussemoose Out of curiosity are you teaching at secondary level? Is it an optional subject or something implemented in the curriculum as a matter of course?
It took me till my post-grad degree before I clue what was what, I was certainly never taught the functions of the EU as a matter of course in high-school which I think in view of the fact we didn't join last week is hugely concerning but I can see the headlines now should it have become core material "UK tax payers funding EU propaganda lessons in schools"

I don't remember being taught anything formally about the EU until I went to law school as a postgrad.

It is done, Brexit is happening. Slowly.....we would be even more in a pickle if we backtracked now. We were asked a question, which would form the basis of policy and the answer was Leave.

And if we have to rely on the internet for the 'facts' on which we base our countries future then democracy is indeed dead.

@Julie8008 So not only are you a Leaver, you are also a luddite!

Julie8008

Totally different thread needed for political education and Citizenship studies. We have to teach RE but not the British Constitution or lack thereof. Shocking.

The point remains the EU is a system very similar to the US in that it has three bodies that make up the executive and the legislature. It is not overly complex and is certainly not labyrinthine.

The British system is widely regarded as having a democratic deficit and is considered an 'elective dictatorship' - to imply the British system is better than the EU model is really quite ludicrous.

And if we have to rely on the internet for the 'facts' on which we base our countries future then democracy is indeed dead

Are you deliberately obtuse? Are you stating lists of MEPs on the internet are not factual?

It is done, Brexit is happening. Slowly.....we would be even more in a pickle if we backtracked now. We were asked a question, which would form the basis of policy and the answer was Leave.

Unfortunately, i agree with you, IIRC this poll has been debunked multiple times across the political spectrum.

VladmirsPoutine

I teach Citizenship and also work with ESOL (English for Speakers of Other Languages) students in a post 16 setting.

The average Afghani 17 year old asylum seeker in one of my classes seems to understand more than many posters on MN

I find the Europarl website a most excellent repository of EU facts (not “facts”).

Much more accurate than, say, Leave.EU on Facebook which seems to be many a leaver’s go to internet site for “facts” about the EU.

Much more accurate than, say, Leave.EU on Facebook which seems to be many a leaver’s go to internet site for “facts” about the EU.

Thats just a sneering attitude though isn't it, its on the level of any who disagrees with JC is a daily mail reader.

It's tribalism and some self flagellation of thinking you are superior, 9 times out of 10 the people who make such comments are just as narrow minded as those they try to ridicule, and on the same percentage they have only just recently found the website.

Moussemoose That makes more sense now, I was about to turn inside out at the thought of typical British secondary students learning about the European Commission, Council & Parliament all before lunchtime on a wet Tuesday. Perish the thought!

Yes I bloody will ridicule people who say stupid things like the EU is a dictatorship and that if we had stayed we would have been forced to join the euro, because they get their "facts" from pro-leave Facebook groups and the Daily Fail.

People like that deserve nothing but ridicule.

The point remains the EU is a system very similar to the US
Which is irrelevant as we live in the UK.

If I (currently) want a political party that will elect Jeremy Corbyn I vote for a Labour candidate. If I want to vote to stop JC I can vote for a Conservative candidate.

In the EU who do I vote for to get rid of to Junker?

VladmirsPoutine

The very idea of teaching school children about the political institutions that control our lives - it's nonsense! Nonsense I say!

They might make informed decisions then and know when politicians talked bollocks. Or know when people say the EU is undemocratic that it is totally and utterly wrong.

I find the Europarl website a most excellent repository of EU facts
And how many UK voters has the time or inclination to spend days/weeks studying the EU parliamentary website. Its a barrier to democracy.

You had over a year's notice that we were having a referendum. You had plenty of time to do your research, and if you couldn't be arsed you should have done the rest of us a favour and stayed at home on referendum day.

Julie8008

The point remains the EU is a system very similar to the US
Which is irrelevant as we live in the UK

My point in referencing the US is that you had previously claimed the EU institutions were "labyrinthine" in their complexity. I was comparing the EU to a country you might possibly have heard of and know something about.

The EU is no more complex than lots of other countries. It is not so complicated it is "undemocratic" as you claimed. You are quite simply wrong.

Its a barrier to democracy

Two clicks on the website takes you to a simple guide to the processes of the EU.

There is no barrier to democracy in terms of finding out how the EU works other than not being engaged or being too lazy. Neither of those are barriers caused by the EU.

Yes I bloody will ridicule people who say stupid things like the EU is a dictatorship and that if we had stayed we would have been forced to join the euro, because they get their "facts" from pro-leave Facebook groups and the Daily Fail.

And yet there is a common narrative that our political system is too london centric, and do not pretend that the "facts" are only wrong on the brexit side.

As you are being reductive, there was just as much an unknown on remain, an ever closer union is the aim, that is not a daily fail "fact"

We had legally binding opt-outs from joining the euro and Schengen and from being obliged to participate in any further "closer union". We also had the European Union Act 2015 which ensured that no Jethers transfer of power to the EU could take place without first holding a referendum.

Those are facts, not "facts".

*no further transfer of power (no idea what jethers is)

In the EU who do I vote for to get rid of to Junker?

You can't because he was nominated by the European Council and appointed by the Parliament. I know... I KNOW you're going to use this as evidence that the EU is therefore undemocratic but I won't be drawn on that because the EU's structure is democratic.

And Brits are the last people that should be lecturing anyone about democracy in light of the fact that we have an unelected head of state, an unelected second chamber and an infuriating FPTP system which invariably results in a two-party system or single-party govt's lacking in majority.

Thats just a sneering attitude though isn't it, its on the level of any who disagrees with JC is a daily mail reader.

No, it’s about accurate sourcing of information. If you can’t see that then that’s not my problem.

The facts and "facts" where just an unknown, hence why David Cameron came back with his tail between his legs, its funny how you think holding a referendum as being democratic considering the situation we are in.

The European Commission president is elected by the European Parliament. Juncker was the first leader of the executive to be elected under the new “Spitzenkandidat” system, which allowed every political group represented in the European Parliament to put forward a candidate for the post

He was elected by a democratic, directly elected body.

Democracy does not mean you vote for every person in a position of power. In the UK we do not vote for the PM. We only vote for our own MP. To consider a body undemocratic because we do not vote for every position is silly.