To be dreading Christmas present from DP as I know it won’t be an engagement ring?

[CalifornianSummef]

...and that’s all my friends and family keep saying thats what they expect it will be?!

Been together 5.5 years, I’m 30, he’s 35. I want to get married, he knows this. Previously he’s not been keen etc, we last had a chat about a year ago and he said he ‘Had come round to the idea more and maybe marriage is something he’d like.’ I made it clear that I wouldn’t be hanging around long term if that wasn’t ever going to be on the cards.

However, since then on Valentine’s Day, our anniversary, my 30th birthday, all my friends and family have been ‘ohhh maybe he’ll propose, bet you’ll get a ring!’ He took me away for my 30th for a romantic city break and it’s all I heard on texts etc. But nothing.

I feel disappointed anyway when these occasions pass by and there isn’t a ring, but for my friends and family to constantly keep going on about it is making it worse.

I know he won’t be getting me a ring for Christmas and I’m just dreading the ‘Oh did you get a ring?’ messages. I’m also dreading the disappointment I know that I’ll feel on the day, the disappointment that I’m coming to know too well

Do what my SIL did, buy the ring (on his card), book a romantic weekend away (on his card), tell him there's a ring packed away in his bag and that when they get to the end of the romantic walk there is the perfect bench at the top of the hill that she expected a proposal on! He went along with it as well... the fool!

I don’t blame you for wanting marriage before having children.

Stick to your plan of April.

My friend is still hanging on in, 13 years down the line. She won’t leave and he’s no closer to proposing than he was 4 years ago when he told us about his “big plan”!
I hate him, we stopped asking her about children and weddings years ago as we know how upsetting it is for her. I want to give her a good shake and punch him in the face. If he had told her that he didn’t want children or marriage then I’d have understood but he has never said either of those things.

Talking about the “first girl”, I had a “first boy”. I went out with someone for 5 years, we lived together for two years. He kept taking about marriage and I would make some excuse time and again about waiting until “after.....,”.

I then got a fab job in London, hundreds of miles away and only when I was living there did I realise I dint miss him at all, and I needed to finish things. That was in the February and in the August I met my now dh. We were married the following March because I knew he was the one.

I felt guilty at the time but also realised he had dodged a billet too, I really didn’t love him enough and I’m so glad for both our sakes that we hadn’t married.

OP I know you have to get a new job, but please don’t wait around too long. He doesn’t love you enough and you deserve better.

I really don’t get why couples in what are apparently great relationships can’t talk about this kind of stuff openly. I would understand and respect him if he’d made it clear he didn’t agree with marriage, or that it wasn’t for him. But, If you’re 5+ years in and are beyond your mid-20s, continuing to hedge your bets by not committing is both cruel and pathetic. Two years is more than enough imo.

Oh OP, it doesn’t look good. You’re young and could find real love with someone who does want to commit. Please don’t let him turn you into someone needy and unhappy. I recognise this situation and you need to get out fast. I was engaged to the most wonderful man (now my beloved DH) in less than a year of finally leaving the bastard. Once I’d broken free I couldn’t believe how much time I’d given him or how much he’d worn down my self esteem.

P.S. If a man really loves you and can’t live without you he’ll never let money stand in the way. Five years is plenty of time.
I recommend an excellent book called The Rules.

Also agree with previous posters - you’ll be amazed how quickly he proposes after you leave him once he meets someone he falls truly madly in love with. I’ve seen it happen twice and heard about others.

Do what my SIL did, buy the ring (on his card), book a romantic weekend away (on his card), etc etc

Honkyzeke I’m sorry, but that’s some of the worst advice I’ve ever read on here.... I can’t think of anything less romantic than this “romantic weekend”. If a man can’t choose to marry you and propose, and requires this kind of set up, then he’s a pathetic specimen who should be ditched.

*Coconutella
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It was tongue in cheek advice! My SIL is crazy!
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@twiney where is your evidence that she putting pressure on him? She is simply stating her disappointment at not getting a ring!!!

Honeyzeke

Sorry for not recognising it was tongue in cheek.... For your SIL though, she actually did this!?

@CalifornianSummef

If your DP witnessed his parents marriage deteriorate, it might be a reason why he doesn't believe in marriage.

*Coconuttella
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She actually did this and proudly tells people too! The fact that he just went along with it is just as ridiculous as her setting the whole crazy situation up!

I feel for you. I was traditional and wanted to be proposed to. We were together 4.5 years before I brought it up and said I’d like to get married and was it something he wanted. He had a mild heart attack rolls eyes and mumbled about pressure. I left it a few months and raise it again and said I loved him and wanted to get married and start a family in that order and if he didn’t want or wasn’t ready to he should tell me and I could make a decision about my future. We agreed we’d get engaged the following summer and he stared saving for a ring. He bought it and it still took him two months after that to propose! My advice, be clear, be calm, set your boundaries for a commitment and stick to them. We are happily married with a little bit now and i wouldn’t have thought it remotely possibly a few years back. X

'My friend is still hanging on in, 13 years down the line. She won’t leave'

Then she doesn't want marriage or kids any more than he does. No decision is still a decision.

I genuinely don't get this 'fairy princess' attitude towards marriage. Waiting for a ring. Not communicating clearly how you feel about marriage. Why?

Its not just about the 'but its 2017!' thing. It just doesn't bode well for a future marriage, which should be an equal partnership between two adults who hopefully can communicate well with each other.

'Traditional' is just another way of saying you are expected to sit around fretting and having ridiculous, juvenile conversations about rings with your female relatives while he cracks on with his life in the way he wants.

Have a frank discussion. Decide between you what you each want and whether its the same thing. It shouldn't be this hard, and if it is - something is wrong.

I never understand that sort of scenario, Darnda, to be blunt...
Agreeing to "get engaged" the following summer . From the moment you agreed you would get married at some point in the future you were "engaged to be married", not actually wearing a ring is a complete red herring.
And then he actually gave you a ring, but you reckon he still didn't "propose" for another two years? How do you figure that one?!
What an unwarrented bloody rigmarole.

Oh, two months, sorry. Same principle, though. Didn't you realise it was a done deal and all that remained was to set the actual date?

I am of course not recommending this, but if anyone really wants to be traditional, in many societies and for thousands of years formal proposals were made from one man to another: to a young woman's father by a man wanting to marry one of his daughters, for dynastic, financial, political, inheritance etc reasons, or sometimes, but by no means always, for love.

The formal romantic proposal so beloved of soppy films and fiction is not much older than than the 18th/19th century. And it was not unknown even at that time for women to propose - Queen Victoria proposed to Prince Albert, for example. The reason why is instructive - she was the higher ranking/more powerful person. Today, when most of us aim for equality in relationships, it seems strange to assume that one person should still have all the decision-making (=proposal) power.

Yep,if lassie hanging on in 13+ yrs,no ring she’s no bothered about being married either
And agree+++ no decision is in fact a decision. Eg there’ll be no marriage

I had something similar OP, but with us it was having children. I was with my exH for 11 years. Every year after 25 i wanted a baby. He said he wasn't ready. When i got to 28 we spoke again. Still one ready, wanted one more big holiday/festival etc. At 30 i said i wanted to start trying. He said 1 more year. at 31 he said just one more year. At 32 he said he wasn't sure if he wanted kids. I was gutted. We spoke a lot and he said he would probably come round etc, maybe in 5-10 years he'd feel differently. I decided that i wasn't prepared to risk it. I left.

Within a few weeks he had moved in with my best friend. True to what he said they had a baby last year, when i would have been 40.

I felt really silly i'd wasted so long waiting for him. He wasn't honest with me, but i didn't want to believe what was obvious - he didn't want a baby with me. I should have left at 30.

At 32 he said he wasn't sure if he wanted kids. I was gutted. We spoke a lot and he said he would probably come round etc, maybe in 5-10 years he'd feel differently. I decided that i wasn't prepared to risk it. I left.

Christ, no wonder.

Rightly or wrongly, I always think its worse when a man dicks around with a woman like this. Women have such a limited window of time in which to have kids.

Men in their sixties and beyond, on the other hand, have had kids naturally.

'I felt really silly i'd wasted so long waiting for him. He wasn't honest with me, but i didn't want to believe what was obvious - he didn't want a baby with me. I should have left at 30.'

Yep! I divorced at 30 for this very reason.

'Rightly or wrongly, I always think its worse when a man dicks around with a woman like this. Women have such a limited window of time in which to have kids.'

Then it's up to women to be aware of this, and get rid of men who dick them around. I know it's easier said than done, my divorce was very painful and expensive, but women don't have unlimited time to reproduce.

Totally agree expat. I was the one who wanted a baby. The onus was on me to take control. There was a sunk costs fallacy there i suppose. I thought i'd already been with him so long i shoulf just give it one more year. When i look back i realise how obvious it was but i just didn't want to see it. If i'd left at 30 i would have been in a better position. But at 32 i very much felt i was running out of time.