To be dreading Christmas present from DP as I know it won’t be an engagement ring?

[CalifornianSummef]

...and that’s all my friends and family keep saying thats what they expect it will be?!

Been together 5.5 years, I’m 30, he’s 35. I want to get married, he knows this. Previously he’s not been keen etc, we last had a chat about a year ago and he said he ‘Had come round to the idea more and maybe marriage is something he’d like.’ I made it clear that I wouldn’t be hanging around long term if that wasn’t ever going to be on the cards.

However, since then on Valentine’s Day, our anniversary, my 30th birthday, all my friends and family have been ‘ohhh maybe he’ll propose, bet you’ll get a ring!’ He took me away for my 30th for a romantic city break and it’s all I heard on texts etc. But nothing.

I feel disappointed anyway when these occasions pass by and there isn’t a ring, but for my friends and family to constantly keep going on about it is making it worse.

I know he won’t be getting me a ring for Christmas and I’m just dreading the ‘Oh did you get a ring?’ messages. I’m also dreading the disappointment I know that I’ll feel on the day, the disappointment that I’m coming to know too well

OP do you really love tradition more than you love your partner? I think it's a lot to give up over an expensive party and a bit of paper. And of course there are the additional rights that come with marriage but I don't get the feeling it's those you are holding out for.......

Tbh, I always laugh at posters who are married with children who post stuff like this, always seems a bit smug. 'Well, it's just a bit of paper and a party for you, but not me who went and did it.'

As for 'a bit of paper', well, so's a will, a passport, a death certificate.

The whole reason she's not happy is because she wants to be married and he doesn't. Comparing this to other couples who are happily unmarried is like chalk and cheese. It's a fundamental value difference that makes a couple incompatible if they don't agree on such things.

Stick to it, OP. No more giving him another year.

REALLY focus on getting a new job and getting your ducks in a row.

When I met my DH, both of us were adamant that we didn't want to marry. We are both atheist, not traditional, and grew up with parents in highly fractious and unhappy marriages.
He proposed to me after 10 weeks and we were married 11 months after we first met. That was nearly 9 years ago, we now have 3DC and are still as happy.

For us, our views changed when we fell in love as we wanted to publicly declare our love together because we felt certain this was it, and my DH (who is a solicitor) wanted me to have full legal protection as I wanted to stay home with any children we had for as long as I could.

He had proposed to (and been rejected by) a long term ex. I had also chased and pushed ex's that weren't really interested long term. Deep down I knew they didn't want to be with me forever, but we loved each other and I tried to get some sense of commitment.

Every relationship is different, but it should be really wanted. I think you need to chat to him about the future. Maybe you could ask him what he wants, as an opener. How he sees the next few years.... if he definitely wants children... how many etc. People's views often change on this, especially once they have one child! But the way in which he talks about it, clams up/is excited, disinterested/has views on where to live/their education etc etc, will tell you. If a house is next on the list for you both you could start by talking about areas/schools/bedrooms, and then lead on to talking about family/marriage. But once you do, you need to be honest. You don't need to say: if you don't propose by x I'll leave', but you could say 'are you sure you want to marry me? Because I would have thought you would have proposed by now if you did'. Tell him you aren't angry, that you don't want to pressure him, but that you want the truth and to talk about it. You're much more likely to get the truth from him if you aren't confrontational.

The point of view I don't understand is the idea of throwing away the love and happiness you have now for the uncertainty of finding as much love and happiness with a wedding attached

The OP answered this perfectly. Her partner doesn't have a philosophical objection to the concept of marriage. he just doesn't want to get married to her. She thinks it is because she isn't "the one". I wouldn't stick around in a relationship where I felt second best or not good enough. For some people marriage is not a barometer of how committed they are. But for some people - many people - it is a barometer and it is perfectly rational to decide you'd rather wait for someone who truly loved you and wanted you than someone who is settling for you.

That's apart from the legal protections that come with marriage. I doubt the partner is saying "no, don't want to marry but how about we go into the solicitor next week and sort out all the legal stuff ourselves".

Sorry you are disappointed. Ive been engaged for nearly 15 years....
If he doesnt want to marry you and you want to marry him then either accept this with him or leave while you're young enough to find someone also free but more suitable.
I never wanted to get married but the last few years have changed me and i feel financially vulnerable and insecure for me and our child.

For me it is a barometer of how committed people are to each other. If it isn't for others then that's up to them. But it is important to OP so why if her DP isn't bothered one way or the other is he dragging his feet. If somebody doesn't want to get married I'd want to know why not if they were my partner.

Op I was in the exact situation. Our friends pestering asking about when we would get married. 2 years ago I thought it was going to happen. It didn't. Friends put more stress on the situation. It happened in September and it was in his time when he was ready. Consider what else is going on in life, other stresses. If he doesn't ask you at Christmas or new year, ask him why, explain exactly how you feel and allow him to explain how he feels. It's important you know exactly where you stand with him. In my situation it wouldn't have made a difference if my partner proposed or not as I am committed to being with him. I hope you get the outcome you are looking for.

I wanted marriage because my previous partner died.
There is NO SUCH THING AS COMMON LAW. Sorry for the caps, but I found myself grieving, with a halved household income and I couldn't even access his bank account. I had no say over his body. I had no say over his funeral. We had lived together for a while.
It's financial protection.
If it's just a piece of paper then grab some witnesses and make a wet Wednesday morning appointment down the registry office.
If he's not willing to protect your future, hes not the one.
I wish I hadn't bloody waited so long.

YY expat, we need to declare a moratorium on the 'marriage is just a piece of paper' stuff. It isn't, it's a legal contract. It's a piece of paper in the same way as any other legal contract is.

This isn't an inherently pro marriage point either: the legal status of marriage is just as valid a reason not to marry as it is to marry. Depends totally on your circumstances. But selling it as no more than a bit of paper doesn't help anyone make an informed decision. Whether that informed decision is to get married or to run away from it as fast as your legs will carry you!

I agree with OP’s setting a do-or-die date because I don’t believe she should hang around indefinitely for someone unwilling to marry her. Especially a woman, who has a time limited period in which to have children.

However, I still can’t shake the sense that if marriage is so important to her, and seemingly not to him, then she should be the one doing the asking!

No marriage isn’t just bit of paper,it conveys legal rights.but it doesn’t make a couple more solid or necessarily more stable.marriages can & do end

The rub is this,be fully aware and conversant with both your pro/con of cohabitation vs marriage. Be open and frank in discussion

Be aware you cant and shouldn’t coerce or pressure dp into marriage

Based on answer you get you decide what to do
Married, set a date crack in.dont go daft with costs
If unmarried You don’t have to leave him,you can cohabit
You can leave if you wish,date a marrying kind of man

My DH was with his ex partner for 8 years maybe more

When they split up ,we met about 6 months later and we got married within 3 months of meeting each other and are still married 18 years later .
When I asked him about why he didnt get married to his ex he said that he knew she wasn't the right person for him and he couldnt imagine spending the rest of his life with her and growing old and despite her wanting to get married he didn't want to and kept putting it off
.

He said that when we met he wanted to marry me and that he didn't want to waste any time and he wanted me to know exactly how he felt about our relationship .

And was he straight with the ex he didn’t want to marry her?or string her along

YEs, if after 5,6,7 years he knew she wanted marriage and he didn’t he treated her badly by not ending it sooner.

I think when say people say marriage is just a piece of paper it is actually a reference to the legality of it. So it is just a contract (albeit a crucial one for security) but it doesn’t enhance the love you share, that’s there regardless of the contract.

I bet if this man knew how the OP feels and that he was due to be issued with an ultimatum in Jan, he'd be down on one knee quicker than you can say Boodles! Maybe he's anxious about weddings. Some people have nightmare families and nothing like a wedding to stir up drama. Maybe he thinks her family are too much? Anyway there could be all sorts of psychological reasons, it doesn't mean he doesn't love her. I would never have proposed to a man personally, so I get why she doesn't want to do that, but it's still very possible to have a "what about the future" conversation. I would try and do this before Xmas.

*My DH was with his ex partner for 8 years maybe more

When they split up ,we met about 6 months later and we got married within 3 months of meeting each other and are still married 18 years later .
When I asked him about why he didnt get married to his ex he said that he knew she wasn't the right person for him and he couldnt imagine spending the rest of his life with her and growing old and despite her wanting to get married he didn't want to and kept putting it off
.

He said that when we met he wanted to marry me and that he didn't want to waste any time and he wanted me to know exactly how he felt about our relationship.*

This is why I’m feeling the way I am. I’m convinced I could be the first girl and that is just tragic. No one should be the first girl.

OP well how does it feel when you are actually with him? I mean do you feel connected, or does he always feel a bit aloof?
Only talking about marriage twice in years is a bit unusual. You don't know what he's thinking and are trying to second guess a statement he made a year ago. He may have no idea you're at this point. Talk to him!!!

I was the “first girl” once, but when it became clear that my bf didn’t want marriage challenged him, and he did the decent thing and dumped me! Otherwise am sure he’d have strung me along several more years. But I was younger than you are so had more time to waste.

To the people who are saying he will never want to marry you, i'm not necessarily sure that is the case. I was you a few years ago but am now very happily married. My now DH knew I wanted marriage but didn't propose for 5 years. It turned out that he just didn't want a big wedding. He is a nervous person, hates being the certain of attention and it would have been hell for him. Once we talked about it, and I agreed we could just go abroad and get married, he proposed after a few months. Think he was just scared I would turn in to a bridezilla!

It’s very clear that marriage is more popular with women than with men

This happened to me. Together for 8 years, then we were ttc (unsuccessfully). We had talked about marriage and he would say that he wanted to marry me, just not yet. Every single night out/ Christmas/ Weekend away was ruined by people dropping hints and making statements on his [lack of] intentions towards me. An otherwise solid and happy relationship

One weekend someone very close to the OH said "if he's not proposed by now, he just doesn't want to marry you" And I'll admit, that was the final straw that broke my confidence in the relationship. I felt that this person must know my OH better than I.

Two weeks later I found out I was pregnant. I did a lot of soul searching and had to ask myself which I wanted. Did I want a life with him if it never included marriage, or did I want marriage if that meant it would be with someone else. I looked at our relationship objectively, and realised that just being with him made me happier than I've ever been. I chose that. I took marriage off the table but I did explain that I had concerns of stability now I was expecting and that we would get some legal documents drawn up when the time came.

Op you describe yiur live like a movie script.no one should be first girl?
No woman needs to be so bloody passive either.yiure passively waiting hoping
You’ve given him all the power,and you wait,and wait in hope he’ll ask
That’s no way to live. Hoping and wishing whist your over zealous friends/family interfere

Just ask him - when are we getting married and not a vague sometime,a specific date

And if he doesn’t want to marry you, well that’s up to him
You don’t have to sit playing youre not first girl.its so demeaning

I know exactly how you feel. Been together 8 years, house and baby together. But still no ring. Everyone thinks it's coming but I'm just not sure and think I'm going be disappointed on Christmas day when he doesn't ask! Don't have any advice coz I do feel like I'm just waiting and could be waiting forever even though he has said since the start that he does want to marry me. I do think saying 'just ask him yourself' or 'just get married, who even gets engaged anymore?!' are not very helpful when what you want is to be proposed to and a nice ring!

Maybe you’ve hit the nail on the head bluesky, some women just want the attention of a proposal and a nice ring. It’s quite shallow really.