To be angry at photos at Nativity?

[MrsAnamCara]

Just seen DC infant nativity. We were sent out letters, went to the office yo get tickets, had texts to remind people-all fine and well. No mention of needing permission to take photos/videos. Nothing mentioned before the start of the actual nativity performance either. The performance starts and several people whip their phones out and begin taking photos and videos but not of individual children, of all of the children on stage. It goes on throughout the performance and I can see in their view finder they are filming/recording video of 5+ children... A parent the right if the school Hall is stood filming the entire performance.

No one said they weren't allowed to but...neither was the guardian or parent of every single child asked either.

In my D's nursery, they asked for written permission, and if only one parent didn't give permission then no one was allowed to take photos or videos. Even if we were allowed, then it was photos and videos of your child only (zoom in) and if there were other children then you couldn't post it on social media and send to anyone else.

It really ruined the performance for me, as I don't know these people who are taking videos/photos of my child, I don't know where they will post them or send them to, I don't know who will see that photo or video. I did not give anyone permission to take his photo or record him?

I'm I being unreasonable to think the school should have asked for legal written permission for all children's parents or guardian's? And if some parents don't agree or give permission then that's too bad.

Chimera246

Every phone photo in the tags has the precise GPS location stored, and this is available on the photos to download. So any picture in the street gives its location to less than 30m.

Surely, you know this if your looking into any security at all.

Now now, Blink. You're verging on being patronising. And you're undermining your own arguments.

Yes, I do know that.

Someone is looking for my kids. They know via geotagging where a photo is taken.

A. It's on a street somewhere. They might decide to hang out on the street in case I walk past the same spot with my kids at some point in the future.

B. It's at a school, somewhere my child is obviously a pupil and is therefore there Monday-Friday, 9-3, 36 weeks a year.

Which scenario should I be more worried about?

Lizzie,

DD competes in a performing art, and there are 3 approaches to performances / competitions.

1 approach (a national competition) asks for photograph permission, and points out that should this be denied, the child cannot compete as the event is continuously photographed and videoed and they cannot guarantee that the child's image will not appear. This is obviously not a good approach BUT i is a national competition photographed by a professional 3rd party, and I can see that the careful editing required - which tends to need someone familiar with the child in question, who would by definition be moving all around the stage - would be harder.

Another approach is to ask for photograph permission, then have the event filmed / photographed and then an edited version made available - usually included in the ticket price of the event. Editing is collaborative between the photographer & the organiser of the event, so identification of specific children is reliable.

A third version is to have no photography at all during the event itself, but to have nice professional group / individual photographs taken by an enthusiastic member of event staff (who knows who can't be photographed) and made available to the parents of those specific participants on request, as well as parental photography of own / known children before / after the event. Again, photograph permission is requested in writing at the time of entry.

In no case is photography allowed in the event. This is carefully policed - I have seen those photographing be taken out of the event, the photographs / videos deleted under close supervision, and then that individual be banned from the event.

Chimera246

If I had a geo-tagged photo of you in most cases I'd suggest I could find you in a matter of days. I'm not undermining anything, just pointing out that public photos containing you are just the same.

I appreciate your predicament - I really do, but I don't agree it can't be managed by having multiple performances and recognising some people should be also take pictures of their children's life events.

The issue is you want it all your own way, and won't compromise at all.

won't compromise at all
Selfish bastards, trying to keep your children safe.

Blink

Can I just confirm that what you're saying is that, because I don't want photos or videos of my children on social media. I'm refusing to compromise... in your view?

StreyyTV
I just saw on BBC News some kids died in a house fire. It's a "real threat". Let's be scared of it!'
WTAF is wrong with you? If you're referring to the recent story from Greater Manchester, "Those kids" didn't just die in a house fire, they were fucking murdered in their own home, by someone who set out to deliberately harm them.
They had been previously threatened, so much so the fire brigade and police had been involved prior to their deaths, so clearly yes that threat was very fucking real.
I have no idea if they were or weren't on social media or if someone not taking pictures at a school play would have saved their lives. I'm just disgusted how you can casually throw out a comment about something so awful, to try and make some half baked clueless point.
I'm not going to talk about my circs as so many pp have already said far more eloquently exactly how I feel because some of the comments have really pissed me off.
But for Olennas , Unborn , Wellies and anyone else dealing with this it's true, you get it or you don't.

Or rather that, because my school.... and no school I know of in my area...runs multiple performances, I should just 'suck it up' or pull my child out of performances so that others may post photos/videos on social media with impunity?

my school doesn't

Thank you to those of you who have replied to my post. I can see that it's complicated and will get even more so if one of my DDs becomes very good at gymnastics, which DD2 really is. There's plenty to consider here.

Lizzie I'm thinking that with gymnastics competitions they tend to have their hair done tightly, and maybe makeup on? So if you choose carefully, photos you send could be quite different with hair all flowing etc? Would that help? Possibly more of an issue if names are published online for competition reports if your DD has an unusual name.

For us, as time has gone on and our ACs have got older, we have got a bit more 'relaxed' about out of school things, though still tight on in school ones. (Due to how and who we do contact with).

Might also depend on how much you say about the gymnastics in the contact letters. So if you say 'DD is now a county gymnast for the U10 age group' that is quite a lot of info. Whereas DD is still enjoying gym club isn't nearly so thought provoking'

I would be annoyed. Mine are both adopted and we don’t share photos on social media of them for fear of birth parents seeing them. If everyone in the school is fine with it, ok, but given most schools will have at least one or more foster kids, adopted or from people who have suffered DV then it’s not on

Chimera246

No, I've not said that once.

What I've said is that I can take a picture of my own child in their school setting and not post it on social media - and that should be fine.

If someone posts it then they should be excluded - but its not reasonable to stop it just in case.

I've also said its perfectly possible to do a show with photos and one without - and people can choose whether their children take part (for any reason).

What I've said is that I can take a picture of my own child in their school setting and not post it on social media - and that should be fine.

I'm not going to read back the entire thread, but I'm 99.9% sure no one has said anything different, have they?

Yes - the whole premise of the thread is banning taking pictures in school, whether or not they are posted in social media.

People have said just because people can't be trusted they can't take pictures.

If your child happens to be in the background of my child's picture, that's not my concern - but I do understand that I won't publicly post such a picture.

Blink

No as i said earlier, the common sense approach is the one my school have.
Take photos, don't post them. We once had a performance we couldn't take photos, that was fine. I got that there was clearly a risk to one child and thats why for that performance the school couldn't risk it.

Its about parents and teachers taking a common sense approach, so
parents film it, photo it but don't post it - this gets revised if the trust is broken.
School let the parents take photos etc and trust them not to post it, maybe revisiting if theres an additional immediate threat for a child, or the parents have broken the no social media rule.

Why should children and I'm talking little ones here more than the older ones who would perhaps understand more. Why should they miss out and get have to get upset because someone else wants to take a photo, its bonkers. Chances are they've seen enough shit in their life without missing out on the nativity as well. For my school its all the class do for about a month before, rehearse rehearse rehearse. To have to not be part of that bEcause of a photo would be bloody heartbreaking for them.

Right - there you go, ElfOneself did say it. This is not a common sense approach - it is OTT and oppressive to the majority of the school population.

A common sense approach is to allow picture to be taken, not allow individual parents or children to take part if the trust is broken by that family, and potentially do multiple performances - allowing everyone to get an opportunity to stay protected and take photos.

I think the most common approach, and the most reasonable one, is to allow photography and filming so long as nothing is posted on social media. However, if parents frequently flout this rule - or if there are children who have a very real threat against them in the school - then the school is within its rights to say 'No cameras'. If the school can then arrange alternatives (such as an official DVD) then great, but it is under no obligation to do so.

My dd's school asks parents not to take photos till the end, when they are invited forward to take pictures of their child, along with friends if the friends' parents are happy. And it asks for no pictures on social media. I am happy to go with that. However, should it be necessary to ban photos - for mine or any other child - I would think very poorly of any parent who flouted that. It's not about my sense of entitlement (hollow laugh at the thought of being able to get any extra support for my child without having to slay dragons for it), but about an appropriate expectation that all members of the school community need to abide by its rules - even if we don't always know the reason for them.

And can I echo others upthread who have pointed out that children don't ask for filming - they just want their parents there. So we're not talking about the competing rights of children, but the competing desires of adults and needs of children. And there is no question who the school should be putting first: legally, ethically, morally.

Well said ketzele

This is not a common sense approach - it is OTT and oppressive to the majority of the school population

Oppressive?

I'm yet to meet another parent at DD's school who has an issue with blanket ban of photography/filming during the show and photo ops afterwards.

I have countless memories of DD's time at school. Countless pics in costume. I also have memories of the shows, probably because I was watching not trying to take pics

I think the question is, for those who say that 'ask parents not to put it on social media' is sufficient:

Can you say that, in your school, you have good evidence that this request has NEVER been disregarded?

If you have never encountered or heard of anyone, over the last say 5 years, putting anything on social media at all, then I would say 'Fabulous. That's a good risk control measure in this case. no problem.'

However, if you have ever come across anyone who has broken the rule, it should be obvious that the risk control is not sufficient. Whether YOU as an individual obey the rule or not is immaterial - it is only if NOBODY breaks the rule EVER that it is a good risk control strategy.

Thanks Bibbity.

Blink - do you not see that doing one performance with all kids and one without kids where there are some concerns means that you may as well stick a big label on them and invite speculation about their personal circumstances? And their parents, for that matter?

And it means that kids who won't be all the performances probably won't get given a major part, regardless of merit or talent

My best friend has an at risk child and he usually puts on a mask or some kind of disguise at nativity. She then takes her own personal pics of him on the stage after the show. I told her about this thread and she said she would not ask for a blanket ban because at our school we have the following situations

recently we all went to pray for a little boy with a complicated tumour that is taking lots of operations and we don’t know how he might pull through. He took part in the nativity and it was very touching, we are sure his loved ones would like to treasure those memories.

One of the parents is bedridden

Another is disabled and could not attend as she has had a very bad day health wise.

Years ago, another parent was weak from chemo.

All in all, there are probably lots of people with problems that mean they cannot attend a nativity and enjoy in real life instead of just saying that’s too bad, she feels she can do something alternate and not just be all about her and dc.

Our school does not make a video to sell, not sure why, whether they just do not have the resources to or not. But also it’s in a poor area where, parents cannot afford to shell out the money for a video and pics, so I suppose that could be another reason. The Headteacher however, always says don’t put them on social media.

I have noticed that posters on here glaze over post talking about memories for parents of deceased children.