To be angry at photos at Nativity?

[MrsAnamCara]

Just seen DC infant nativity. We were sent out letters, went to the office yo get tickets, had texts to remind people-all fine and well. No mention of needing permission to take photos/videos. Nothing mentioned before the start of the actual nativity performance either. The performance starts and several people whip their phones out and begin taking photos and videos but not of individual children, of all of the children on stage. It goes on throughout the performance and I can see in their view finder they are filming/recording video of 5+ children... A parent the right if the school Hall is stood filming the entire performance.

No one said they weren't allowed to but...neither was the guardian or parent of every single child asked either.

In my D's nursery, they asked for written permission, and if only one parent didn't give permission then no one was allowed to take photos or videos. Even if we were allowed, then it was photos and videos of your child only (zoom in) and if there were other children then you couldn't post it on social media and send to anyone else.

It really ruined the performance for me, as I don't know these people who are taking videos/photos of my child, I don't know where they will post them or send them to, I don't know who will see that photo or video. I did not give anyone permission to take his photo or record him?

I'm I being unreasonable to think the school should have asked for legal written permission for all children's parents or guardian's? And if some parents don't agree or give permission then that's too bad.

[OlennasWimple]

The Sun can fuck off (and take its nasty, misogynistic BTL comments with it)

[MotherofaSurvivor]

lovelyupnorth Are you serious?! There’s a safeguarding issue! Please read full thread!!

[MotherofaSurvivor]

My child & I have escaped DV and if anyone flouted the rules by taking photos or videos of/with her in, then I would be screaming at them! My child’s LIFE is at risk! My ex has tried to kill us both several times and is now on the loose again after being in prison. They can say they won’t put on Social Media but where’s the guarantee? This is making me feel as though my child can never ever be in any group performances or anything where parents are invited. How is that fair? Some very selfish people on this thread! As usual, people who haven’t been through it, don’t believe it.

[MotherofaSurvivor]

Since when did we become a nation of such selfish people? Not all of course, but more & more by the day it seems. So sad.

[BananaThePoet]

whiskyowl - well said.


Because someone might like to have something - they shouldn't get to have it if by them having it they seriously endanger someone else.

And just because someone might not understand what that danger is or how much of a risk it is - that does not mean they can go ahead and do the thing anyway.

[PersianCatLady]

Can I just say -

Until I read this thread I had generally been of the "it is only a photo, what harm can it do" and "even if a paedo sees a photo, what does it matter" way of thinking.

Now I understand the reasons behind it, I have totally changed my mind.

Perhaps schools should put some information about this on their website and print it on the back of the Nativity tickets??

[PersianCatLady]

Seriously, don't see what the issue is with adoption - it's normal. Friends in our primary were adopted, nothing thought of it other than initial interest
Please forgive my explanation but this is what I think it is.

When we were young, most adoptions were of babies that were given up for adoption and for whatever reason their mothers had no chance of finding them because of societal views and the lack of resources (Internet)

Nowadays a lot of adoptions seem to be of older children who have been removed from their parents due to reasons. Often these parents would do anything to find their children and with the Internet that is often quite easy.

That is what I understand.

If this is wrong or I don't quite understand it, please somebody correct me.

If my post is in any way offensive please report it.

[PersianCatLady]

Also, those of you who say photos aren't identifying, do a bit of Googling about "photos" and "metadata".

[Dancergirl]

whiskeyowl great post.

What is it with some people? Selfish or thick or both?

[Chimera246]

Persian

Your post is in no way offensive, but this comment:

Seriously, don't see what the issue is with adoption - it's normal. Friends in our primary were adopted, nothing thought of it other than initial interest

Was made around the time that it was pointed out that adopted children shouldn't be identified to other parents classmates in order to prevent teasing. It was implied that 'all children' are teased in the playground at some stage about something and that this was simply another of those reasons.

Anyone who understands a little about child development would understand this simply isn't the case.

In the first 12-24 months of a child's life, they are making secure attachments that will provide the base for a huge number of things - self-esteem, self-worth, how they perceive the world as a whole.

Think of a child in a typical family. The child gets hungry or wet. The child cries. The primary caregiver rushes over, comforts the child, then meets their need (food, nappy change). The child learns, at a very basic level, that the world is a safe place, they are important enough to have their needs met and as a result, they develop self-esteem and resilience. They lay the foundation for understanding that if they get told off (I'm talking years later), it is the behaviour that is bad, not the person. They feel guilt, but still safe.

As you rightly identify, almost all children who are adopted or fostered have not had this type of upbringing. Likely their needs were NOT met in their first few months. Or worse still, crying didn't bring comfort and relief, it brought an unpredictable or violent adult.

These children do NOT form a secure attachment. They fear the world and learn that they are not important. They are less likely to be able to form emotional resilience.

Crucially, their internal working model tends to be not 'I behaved badly' but 'I am bad'. They don't feel guilt - they feel shame.

THAT is why there is a HUGE difference between 'normal' playground teasing and how an adopted child may feel if someone tells them 'you don't even know where your real Mum is' (as has happened to my DS). And it's why it's important to protect Looked After Children's privacy, not splash their status around for all to see/comment on without understanding the impact.

If you're interested, Bowlby did a lot of work on attachment theory many years ago. It's fascinating (and heart rending at the same time).

[PersianCatLady]

Thank you Chimera246

I am currently waiting for replies to my applications to study for a PGCE at two local senior schools and I am so glad that I now know about this issue for two reasons.

Firstly so I personally now understand the role of photos and social media in safeguarding children.

Secondly so that if I am ever asked about this issue at school, I understand it from a vulnerable child's point of view.

[caperberries]

I don't think people should be condemned as 'selfish or thick' for wanting to take pictures of their children in nativity plays, or for wanting to have a chance to buy a class photo.

I was at my dc3's nativity last week and for once there were no restrictions on taking videos/photos. I filmed dc singing a short solo and was able to share the film with DH who works away and has missed pretty much every school performance for all our dc. I was also able to send it to my parents, who live abroad.

I don't share pictures of my dc on social media and certainly wouldn't share pictures with other people's children in them.

I completely understand the need to protect some dc from being photographed and have always respected any requests not to take pictures, but I don't think or others ABU to be disappointed when I can't photograph my child.

[OlennasWimple]

caperberries - no-one has been called selfish or thick just for wanting to take a photo, it's the posters who refuse to consider that there are legitimate reasons for the restrictions that most schools and groups have in place that are selfish and / or thick. The ones who trot out lines like it all being a fuss about nothing, adoption is perfectly normal so why shouldn't everyone know which children are adopted, and there isn't any risk so why should the rules apply to them?

As a pp said upthread, adoptive parents and others with vulnerable children would also - in an ideal world - like to have photos, it's not U at all to be disappointed.

[VerticalBlinds]

Plus the ones who have said that the any at risk children should be excluded from these types of activities entirely - that's pretty selfish.

[welshmercury]

Most schools respectfully ask for images not to be shared on social media. I can understand both points of view but TBH the quality of sound is poor and you can’t hear what kids are saying anyway. On photos you can edit out other people’s kids but there are children in danger and once Facebook has your photo they can do what they like with it as they OWN it. I personally don’t post pics of my child online anymore as I don’t know how these images will be used in 20 years time when he is looking for a job. I just email pics instead.

In my previous school where there was a major safeguarding issue we put a mask on the child in question just in case. People do need to be respectful as phones blocking everyone’s view are annoying and distracting for the children.

[Mandm0421]

In my sons school we're allowed to take pictures and videos and are repeatedly told not to post on social media.
To be honest I feel like in my own opinion if we can not record or take pictures at all how will our children have memories to look back on from what they did when they were in school especially primary school age as they are willing to participate and use their imaginations and this may not be what everyone else thinks.

[TittyGolightly]

To be honest I feel like in my own opinion if we can not record or take pictures at all how will our children have memories to look back on from what they did when they were in school especially primary school

Exactly the same as the hundreds of generations that came before them?

[driveninsanebythehubby]

Not RTFT because it’s 30 sodding pages and I’m sure this has been said, but adding my tuppence in anyway - -as I wrote it before checking how many pages - -

Oh for goodness sake! When you start your child in school, you sign a form to consent to photos and videos, etc etc. You can specify that you do not want them photograph, in which case the school will ALWAYS say that you aren’t allowed to take photos or videos except of your own child - OR they say you can take them, but for personal use and not to be put on social media.

It’s nice to have these things on video to embarrass show your kids when they get bigger.... or to take your Grandma in the nursing home who can no longer make it to these things but wants to see her great-grandchild’s performance etc.

Not everyone taking photos or videos has a sinister purpose. Even if they shared on their FB account, no-one is going to even watch it or look at the pictures - at best you’ll get a few hearts and people cooing pretending they’ve watched it!

Generally speaking, you expect that you can take photos and videos unless told otherwise. It’s essentially a public event and parents do want to capture their little ones precious moments for keepsake purposes. It’s always been that way, even when I was a kid.

I honestly think you’re being a bit precious. If you were saying that you couldn’t see the performance because someone stood up right in front of you the whole time to film, then you’d have a complaint. But not just because you’re worried that some random person might be watching be video back if your child instead of their own! Yes we have to be careful - but let’s not get so paranoid that we lose the chance to capture the memories to share.

YABU

[PersianCatLady]

To be honest I feel like in my own opinion if we can not record or take pictures at all how will our children have memories to look back on from what they did when they were in school especially primary school
Better that no-one has any photos than one child get harmed by someone.

Anyway, most people nowadays take photos of every little thing, surely it won't matter to have one thing that isn't photographed.

If your memory is that bad that you won't be able to remember your kid's nativity without filming it and photographing every second of it then perhaps you could take a photo of them in their costume before or after the show??

[PersianCatLady]

Even if they shared on their FB account, no-one is going to even watch it or look at the pictures - at best you’ll get a few hearts and people cooing pretending they’ve watched it!
I used to think that as well, now I know different.

Please just try reading a few posts to see the reasons why some children are in danger by being photographed and having those photos posted online.

[Ketzele]

PersianCatLady, you're one of my new faves.

[PersianCatLady]

PersianCatLady, you're one of my new faves
Thank you, I am sure the feeling will soon wear off.

Nice to meet you.

[OlennasWimple]

"I've not RTFT....I honestly think you’re being a bit precious"

[brotherphil]

Not everyone taking photos or videos has a sinister purpose
I would suggest that you look up "strawman argument".
Nobody is suggesting that anybody at all who is taking the pictures has a sinister purpose, and you are seriously insulting parents by suggesting that anybody might.
The problem is the obsessive person who spends all day going through Facebook and similar networks, looking for any hint of information about kids who have been taken into care, to put together with the other bits and pieces they have carefully saved up.
You would be horrified to see how easy it is to find out about people. If you or anybody about whom you cared was at risk, you would get this.

[Hopeful103]

With our school they film it and you can purchase the video. To me it's the same thing in that all children are seen, maybe just least disruptive? I do think it's unfair for the parents to not be able to havr any videos of the plays but I also get why some people want it banned.