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Original poster

To be angry at photos at Nativity?

758 replies

MrsAnamCara · 14/12/2017 15:45

Just seen DC infant nativity. We were sent out letters, went to the office yo get tickets, had texts to remind people-all fine and well. No mention of needing permission to take photos/videos. Nothing mentioned before the start of the actual nativity performance either. The performance starts and several people whip their phones out and begin taking photos and videos but not of individual children, of all of the children on stage. It goes on throughout the performance and I can see in their view finder they are filming/recording video of 5+ children... A parent the right if the school Hall is stood filming the entire performance.

No one said they weren't allowed to but...neither was the guardian or parent of every single child asked either.

In my D's nursery, they asked for written permission, and if only one parent didn't give permission then no one was allowed to take photos or videos. Even if we were allowed, then it was photos and videos of your child only (zoom in) and if there were other children then you couldn't post it on social media and send to anyone else.

It really ruined the performance for me, as I don't know these people who are taking videos/photos of my child, I don't know where they will post them or send them to, I don't know who will see that photo or video. I did not give anyone permission to take his photo or record him?

I'm I being unreasonable to think the school should have asked for legal written permission for all children's parents or guardian's? And if some parents don't agree or give permission then that's too bad.

OP posts:
fatberg · 16/12/2017 14:20

nativities here are after school performances. Not part of the school day
When do they practice them? Are they extra curricular or whole-class events?

daisypond · 16/12/2017 14:23

cantkeepaway exactly. I agree with you. Not having videos or photos of myself or my kids hasn't caused the slightest issue. Because we remember them. So what if my granny never saw my school plays? Or my mum never saw my DC in school plays? It's an experience for the kids', not really for the parents/relatives at all. Constantly photographing and videoing yourself or your children does them no favours.

muttmad · 16/12/2017 14:25

Daisypond I'm 43 and still have photos from my primary nativity plays, of course there were cameras back then!

cantkeepawayforever · 16/12/2017 14:27

Mutt,

But a single photo or two, often taken before or after of just a single family or a whole class picture. Not a full recording or tens of photos.

And never shared on social media - which, as I keep saying, is where the risk lies.

Blink66 · 16/12/2017 14:27

fatberg

No photos are being taken in the school day - seriously, it works at our school - maybe you just can't understand that compromise is possible. But hey, lets just saying something that actually works in practice doesn't and then we can continue to live in fantasy land.

Chimera246 · 16/12/2017 14:28

Your right that's why I do think this way - risk is outcome of the probability weighted impact.

Lovely.

So tell me. Without knowledge of the potential risk factors including the impact to my family (or indeed any other parent who may not want photos taken), how can you confidently assess that the risk is 'minor'?

JacquesHammer · 16/12/2017 14:29

then we can continue to live in fantasy land

Oh god the irony Grin

reallyanotherone · 16/12/2017 14:30

It’s like saying the vulnerable child’s happiness is more important than other children’s

No it isn’t. It is saying that a vulnerable child’s right to safety and protection from harm is more important than a parents “right” to photograph their child.

People don’t seem to be getting that these children are at real risk. Real, physical, emotional, sexual harm.

It’s not hypothetical. It’s not a miniscule risk. It is the risk that people who want to do them harm and have done them harm are actively looking for them, and they will be trawling facebook and school websites.

Facebook is a growing source of information for petty criminals. And rightmove. Floor plans are readily available if your house has been bought or sold in the last 10 years.

fatberg · 16/12/2017 14:32

blink my point was even if the performances are after school, if rehearsals are part of the school day, it’s part of school. It’d be really harsh to make a kid practice then sit out the show or to exclude them from the rehearsals.

If it works for you, that’s nice. If it works for vulnerable kids in your school, that’s great. But it absolutely would not work for some other kids in other circumstances. I’m not sure why that’s tricky to understand.

TittyGolightly · 16/12/2017 14:36

Daisypond I'm 43 and still have photos from my primary nativity plays, of course there were cameras back then!

There was no internet back then though.

fatberg · 16/12/2017 14:39

There was no internet back then though.
Yeah, if you wanted to argue with strangers it was much, much harder. 😀

JacquesHammer · 16/12/2017 14:40

Yeah, if you wanted to argue with strangers it was much, much harder

Grin

Actually I've just remembered a couple of adopted kids in the year above me at first school. Their year never had their pic in the local paper

Blink66 · 16/12/2017 14:40

I do understand, but you've yet to propose a compromise that also works for children who wish to have their performance recorded.

119 children want their memories recorded and one cannot. They way it is setup, no-one is at risk of safeguarding - but you still believe the one can set the agenda off nobody having their performance recorded. Everyone can join in some of the performances, but for individual reasons, not everyone can - that isn't harsh, other children don't turn up to all performances.

Not sure how old some people are, but we have film and colour photos from the 70's of school performances; and yes they are treasured. We are in a world today, that the expectation is that events are recorded and shared - so previous norms do not really matter. I'm sure we don't want to hold up many other norms of the past as needing to be reestablished.

muttmad · 16/12/2017 14:41

No there wasn't Titty, before the performances this year the head teacher stood up and asked if anyone minded photographs being taken, nobody did so she announced that photography was allowed but under no circumstances was it to be shared on social media, if there were any violations photography would be banned at future events. Everyone was happy, and my child has enjoyed seeing the photos and the couple of short videos I took of her singing.

cantkeepawayforever · 16/12/2017 14:43

Blink,

I don't think I understand. The school's responsibility for safeguarding at a school event remains the same whether or not that school event takes place during the day or during the evening. It's a bit like a school's responsibility for not violating the copyright of a show (another reason why some shows can't be videoed or photographed - I have no pictures of DS in any of the 5 secondary school shows he has been involved in, but he and we are fine with that because we have no issue with keeping inside the law) doesn't end when the school day ends.

Is what you are saying that vulnerable children only perform during the 'school day' shows and not the 'not in school hours' shows?
a) that makes them identifiable, which in itself increases the risk and
b) WHAT???? On what level of humanity and equality is that even VAGUELY acceptable????

TittyGolightly · 16/12/2017 14:44

We had the same announcements at ours. Within 15 mins of the shows finishing there were videos on Facebook.

Some people are basically entitled twats.

Blink66 · 16/12/2017 14:46

Chimera246

This was addressing the impact of being teased for being known as adopted.

Since every child gets teased at some point for some reason, the additional end effect Imo is minor. For some children it could be major, but equally the parent cannot know and we can't prevent all aspects of life just for a few risks.

I'm sure some people would be horrified, but our school even let the children play in the snow and ice. Risk is higher of serious impact, but the fun of it is worth it.

JacquesHammer · 16/12/2017 14:46

also works for children who wish to have their performance recorded

I'd be interested to know just how many children are requesting their parents record their play. I rather think - from my extensive experience in drama provision - that it's the parents who want to. I have yet to be asked if we're filming today

Chimera246 · 16/12/2017 14:47

I do understand, but you've yet to propose a compromise that also works for children who wish to have their performance recorded.

I did. Pages ago.

Take as many photos/videos as you want.

Do NOT post them on social media.

Job done

But we can't trust people to do that, so photography is banned. And people get angry with the parents who don't want their kids on social media. Not the parents who cannot stop themselves posting there

amicissimma · 16/12/2017 14:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fatberg · 16/12/2017 14:48

Funnily enough, the only person I saw recording at ours was also the guy who had to run out because he’d blocked a drive.

cantkeepawayforever · 16/12/2017 14:48

before the performances this year the head teacher stood up and asked if anyone minded photographs being taken, nobody did

That is ABSOLUTELY unacceptable. Do you really think an abused wife, someone under witness protection, a foster parent with abused children in their care etc etc etc would feel able to stand up in front of hundreds of people in public and say 'actually, yes, I mind' - and by making the 'children whose parents / carers mind so very publicly visible, greatly increase the risk to them????

That head should have been taken aside and told in no undertain terms that it cannot be done like that. As i said earlier, a similar thing happened at a performing arts thing I was involved in some years ago - and one senior member of staff of an organisation taking part made exactly the point I have, because they knew that it was very likely that anyone who really DIDN'T want photographs taken wouldn't be in a position to object. Given the very unpleasant flak that leader took for their action, I have every sympathy for a parent who did not object when they should do, IYSWIM. Some of the comments were vile.

JacquesHammer · 16/12/2017 14:48

Since every child gets teased at some point for some reason

I don't agree.

I'm sure some people would be horrified, but our school even let the children play in the snow and ice

So do ours. In fact they stop lessons for the day and take them into the field to play. We always send outdoor clothes in winter

Blink66 · 16/12/2017 14:50

cantkeepawayforever

a) It does not make them identifiable other than for some reason could not be part of the show. No different to other children who also cannot attend or don't want photographing for parental choice.

b) It is acceptable to the vast majority of the parents who did not find it acceptable for a blanket ban.

Chimera246 · 16/12/2017 14:51

This was addressing the impact of being teased for being known as adopted

Well, now you're being completely disingenuous but, whatever.

Since every child gets teased at some point for some reason, the additional end effect Imo is minor. For some children it could be major, but equally the parent cannot know and we can't prevent all aspects of life just for a few risks

Do you know anything about adoption at all? If you did, you would understand why in general teasing adopted children is likely to cause more harm than children who have secure attachment.