I have to throw my son out

[GuiltyandHeartbrokenmum]

My son is 22 and is on the Autistic spectrum (Aspergers).

He has become unbearable during the last six months. The things he has done to me and my house are too many to mention. The police have been involved on some occasions.

I've been trying to get him help but he refuses to engage with anyone and now that includes me.

His room is literally now a landfill site and he refuses to clean it up either by himself or with help from me.

I have given him a written list of the conditions he has to abide by in order to remain in the house, but he ignores them.

I can't take it anymore and have told him he needs to leave. My sister will let him stay on her sofa or he can take a train to his dad. He's on the council housing list with priority status so if I throw him out he'll be put up in a night hostel. However, he's fixated on finding private accommodation which he won't be able to afford or maintain.

I am at the end of my tether with him and now I've just walked past his bedroom and there are now small flies coming from his room which I think are fruit flies breeding in the spilt and trodden in food and drink. And to think that I spent good money decorating and carpeting his room just a few months ago when he was at his dad's.

I love my son, and want to help him but I can't help someone who won't accept help. I have contacted Adult Social Care, his doctor, Mental Heath Services, carers services and many, many other organisations over the months. But if he refuses to engage with them what can I do?

I think now that he has to leave for the sake off my sanity and health as well as his. I'm hoping that if he is thrown out that it will be a wake up call to him that he has to accept help, if not from me then from others. He won't go willingly so I will have to lock him out. I don't want to have to call the police to remove him.

I've been told that I would be doing the right thing for him and me, but the guilt is so huge. Please tell me you agree with them.

You mentioned about when he stayed with his father. Could that be a temporary option?

For hygiene reasons alone you need to ideally do something about the state of his room. Will he allow you to clean it? (Despite the fact you may not want to)

'You mentioned about when he stayed with his father. Could that be a temporary option?'

She's already stated in the thread that his father will not take in their son because his partner doesn't want him there.

Hello, i have a bit of mental health experience with people who don't engage with services.
It sounds like you have managed to find some things that you think are appropriate and your son currently is refusing to look at them.

What comes in to play now is your sons ability to make that decision (his capacity). Due to the large spectrum of AsD, he may be capable of making that decision, he may not. Part of this will be that if he knows the potential risks and can weigh it up then he is able to make a decision that others may think is bad e.g. to not explore supported accommodation.

I've got experience of someone who said they wanted to live alone because they felt they were able to but family thought they couldnt. The decision was made that they should try loving alone, because it's difficult to see what kind of help someone needs of they have never tried living alone. In the end they required supported accommodation but we were able to get evidence of this by the failed time of living alone. This then made the right funding go in etc.

This is similar sometimes to the mental health symptoms. Services might say we think that you have schizophrenia but if your son doesn't agree with this, he is unlikely to engage with professionals or more importantly do anything for treatment etc. Whilst the diagnosis may help, if he isn't taking medication etc then the here and now might not change. Ultimately sometimes it ends up being a watch and wait. Either wait long enough that professionals are satisfied that things aren't getting worse or wait until things deteriorate to a point where they can do things such as medication in hospital without consent.

If services are all aware and monitoring then a living independently could give a chance for them to all confirm what you think.

Please keep talking to those involved with your son.

And you know even in nice hospitals sectioning isn’t that fun

I think the OP knows that . But I’m not sure that how she’s living right now is much fun for her either.

And the criteria for being sectioned are very specific. Making your family’s life hell, being aggressive , being paranoid and neglecting yourself don’t count. Otherwise we would have to build a lot more hospitals.

The OP is caught in this terrible place, along with thousands of other families. Her loved one is unhappy / troubled/ unwell in some way that stops him ( and her ) living a normal life. But he refuses to engage with the help that is out there . And he’s not ill enough for the state to take away his free choice to make his own decisions.

So her only choices are to put up with it or tell him to leave.

If she kicks him out, other people will judge her. And if something terrible happens to him she will blame herself.

Its a horrendous situation to be in. OP my heart goes out to you.

I was suggesting she explained that to her son Kr1st1na - as I said in on my previous post - that if he really doesn’t look after himself and engage with the help that can be an outcome (i’m aware there are specific criteria for sectioning & it can be tricky to get even when needed but my son was sectioned basically because a care package in the community couldn’t be put together in time - I know that’s not meant to happen, but if it’s the only option to keep someone safe it does).

I do know other people - more in the position of the OP - who have ended up being admitted voluntarily and been told they will be sectioned if they try to leave. He sounds as if he has quite significant mental health issues, as often goes hand in hand with ASD unfortunately - and it can certainly lead to Hospital. Anything that can encourage him to engage with the help the OP is trying to sort for him will reduce his risks of spiralling and where that can end.

OP I don’t know what to say, other than I am thinking of you. Do not listen to stupid comments and keep trying to get the help your son needs. As other posters said, the LA/NHS don’t want to spend money, so you have to keep insisting. It’s very hard and people who do not have a similar experience won’t understand.

No-one said sectioning is fun , or that OP's son is definitely sectionable.
It is just one possibility. And yes as pps said it's not easy to do these days.

I read the full thread last night - my heart goes out to all those having to battle with this - it is such a sad indication of the fucked up society we live in today.

As someone who has MH issues, whose dm had schizophrenia and was sectioned, a DB with MH issues who is doing his best to beat it and the dysfunction that can result and a Ds who I worry about all the time since he was born and my DF said he will either be a crook or a genius - I fully get where you are all coming from.

Somehow we are trying to get these sufferers ( and I include myself here) who are square pegs to fit into a round whole which is society. - to conform to a set of rules that do not work with them. My Ds as a baby/ toodler was such a happy boy laughing smiling inquisitive questioning but over the years "life" has knocked all of this out of him.

He now sits in his room at the age of 16 with his phone to distract himself from whatever the fuck is going on in his head. He is still trying to conform do what is expected of him i.e. Attend school for a levels think about uni, get a part time job but it is like a game of buckeroo - what is it that will tip him over the edge.

I am trying to protect him but you know what I'm asking myself if I am just making it worse- because by protect I mean trying to help him function Day to day by picking up the slack where he misses it. Im Trying to avert him going into breakdown because I see this as a failure on my part because this is was society says _ that because these people don't fit into the world we have created for them they must be wrong - but maybe this is what he needs - maybe it is mainstream society that is wrong for him.

I have become interested in spirituality and I have heard someone refer to a breakdown as an awakening - they throw off the chains of a life that is holding them prisoner - having gone through my own breakdown 20 odd years ago when diagnosed with PTSD I first started down this path - but then conventional life took over - and a recent extremely acrimonious divorce with a narc from hell who has turned my kids lives upside down and I am now fully back on the path. Trying to understand why I have been battling depression all my life, why I ended up in an E& FA marriage - why I am still being subject to the abuse now that we are divorced and why my kids are still caught in the middle.

I note you are divorced op - does your Ds behaviour becoming worse fit in with your X GF moving in?

My Ds is so angry but he says he doesnt care - I believe he is on a spectrum somewhere but never diagnosed - thinking about it my x will probably be too is narcissism a functioning adult version because the
Self centred ness to the detriment of anyone else seems to be common. And OCD I'm thinking about this too - x has OCD tendencies in other words a control freak - Ds as a child used to spend hrs lining things up toy soldiers, coins, beads. Have so many photos of this - obviously trying to create some order somewhere.

Ds used to hate noise, the tubes, busy places noises at night would often have meltdowns - now he shuts it out with earphones in all the time.

He has been referred to CAMHS but refused to engage, dabbled in drugs over the summer which x escalated through school and head after speaking to Ds thinks he is on verge of breakdown - told me he should really get SS involved but if we as in him & us parents can work together maybe we can turn DS around - so he is now looking at unis

It is not just the Op who is walking a line it is these poor kids!

Maybe I need to stop trying to "protect" - maybe I need to let whatever happen _ maybe a breakdown sooner rather than later with wife and family AKA mid life crisis - is the way.

I want to break free - society is telling me I need to get back to work at 55 after being SAHM for 20 years - I am not doing this to myself - I have struggled to cope with convention and for what? How did I cope by stuffing myself full of ads so that I could function as is expected of me,

I will somehow ditch the materialism - it hasn't made me happy - a simple life is my answer with time to do what I want not stuck on a treadmill of life like some rat on a hamster wheel going round and round in circles but getting nowhere.

I have rambled on as I do at this time in the morning - look up indigo child - maybe this is what we are all dealing with- I'm going to share two things that I have come across - I don't know the answers I'm trying to find them like everyone else but what I do know is MH is on the increase - what's causing this? I believe we are - we are being told to look at how we live and see it is not working - it is causing more and more dysfunction in the name of materialism.

I wish all of you hope and peace with these battles x

www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity/up-next

www.facebook.com/ShareablyNow/videos/2093100280919052/

I keep thinking about you, OP. Your son sounds like my brother. He is 42 and is just broken. I am certain from the way you speak about your son and your feelings that the situation is different. My brother started smoking cigarettes at 9 and my mother didn't believe it. (He stole them from her.). He started smoking pot at 11 (funded by money he stole from her) and was experimenting with chemicals from about age 14. He became the dealer for the private schools in our area and my mother strenuously defended his honour. My mother was frightened of him and too proud to admit it, so she justified and minimised his behaviour. He was never allowed to deal with the consequences of his behaviour, and my parents had the money and contacts to bail him out even when drunk and drug driving - he crashed into a police station. (HONESTLY!!!). He is now 42 and has never worked. My parents are dead and he can't believe that I am not going to be the new mother. I really wonder what would have happened if my parents had stood up to him or let him be punished for his behaviour. I wonder if he'd be functional. Now he's paranoid, violent, and at best, simply too weird for most people to tolerate. He is self-obsessed and devoid of empathy. He can't exist in the real world and there is no fantasy land available to perpetuate his existence. I have kids and can't imagine pushing them out, but I also know that it may need to happen for my safety and for their future. I know it will break your heart, but it is very possible that forcing your son to leave, could very well force him to save his own life. I know that your quality of life must be just awful and you need to look after yourself - but as a mother, you are biologically designed to put yourself at the bottom of the list. If you are worn to the bone, you are not going to be able to think properly, you are going to be anxious and depressed and frightened and you need to take action asap for both your sakes.

It makes sense. There could be some event that escalated his behavior. But if he had been like that for a long time, then that is the way he is. By making him stay in a hostel or away from family, it is possible to make him more focused and responsible.

greenberet : thanks for writing that .. it has really made me think and I want to reflect more on it..

Dear OP, a very good friend of mine has gone through what you have, and she ended up kicking her DS out last winter. Just three months later she said it was the best decision she'd ever made -- for her DS, for her and for her DH. They all now have a good relationship.

Thanks for the responses and sorry for not getting back sooner.

Your messages of support and understanding have been appreciated. On the one hand it is good to hear others experiences but on the other it is sad to see that there are so many of you out there that are feeling despair too.

So I finally kicked my son out last weekend. He would only go if the police came, so I called them.

Of course my son turned up the next day. Its been like that over the week. He comes back, gets money off me then goes. But he ran out of money and was back. But I've changed the locks and turfed him out again tonight after having enough of his insults and painful shoulder jabs.

He has been knocking on the door to let him in. But I'm being tough.

I've got to be cruel to be kind don't I?

Also I have finally begun to tackle his bedroom with him gone. I've put up a couple of pictures of the bedroom carpet after removing layers and layer of rubbish. Despite asking many times he would not clean his room or let me in to help him.

To think that my son was living in such squalor and thought it wad acceptable to do so with masses of fruit flies around him! This shows his state of mind.

Now I'm having to battle the fruit flies that have spread from my son's room to the rest of the house. I will also have to rip up the carpet when it was only laid in July this year. What a waste of money getting his room professionally decorated and a new carpet laid thinking it would improve his mood having it done. What a fool am I!

Needless to say I am having an awful Christmas worrying about my son and the fly invasion! Most of the time I just don't want to get ot of bed now.

Dear GuiltyandHeartbroken you are doing right for yourself and your son. Stay strong, look after yourself and have the nicest Christmas you can manage. I hope everything becomes better and easier as the days go by.

Thanks MrsCrabbyTree. I just can't get enthusiastic about Christmas with everything going on. I just want to fast forward a year hoping that things will be a lot better.

Hope you are have a wonderful Christmas though.

Stay strong op

Stay strong OP. I know this must be so difficult to do, but honestly it's time to be cruel to be kind to him, and it's time to be kind to yourself

Thinking of you OP

Thanks SausageChips and GetOut. I'll try and get some sleep but think as usual I'll tossing and turning wondering where he is.

Op I really can't imagine what you must be feeling like yet in some ways I can - for my own reasons I often cannot be bothered to get out of bed to deal with what I have too.

I'm appalled at those photos - this may be a stupid question but did you show those to whoever you were trying to get help from.

Anyone can see that if someone is living like this they are not ok - I've often taken pics of my own Ds room when I feel it's got too much. I believe it is a reflection of his mind too.

Do whatever you have to do op to be kind to yourself if you stay in bed so what -Christmas is just another day and whatever day of the year you would be worried about your son. So many are pretending to have a wonderful time but if they are only happy with a mountain of presents, more food than they can eat and copious amounts of booze to spend time with family that they very rarely see something is wrong here. Look at is this way you may have just given him the best Xmas present he's ever had - he's somewhere safe and getting the help he needs- and you have a chance to do exactly what is right for you for once

I can't actually believe I've just written this - I'm starting to see the world as it really is - so many families in your situation and no help til we get desperate - wtf is wrong with everyone -do all of us have to suffer in one way or another before there is any change